Re: [Isis-wg] New Layer2 extensions to ISIS - thorough review will berequired
"David Michael Bond" <david.bond@iol.unh.edu> Thu, 29 April 2010 14:46 UTC
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From: David Michael Bond <david.bond@iol.unh.edu>
To: 'David Ward' <dward@juniper.net>, 'Peter Ashwood-Smith' <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>
References: <000501cae4db$cb151e10$188f2f0a@china.huawei.com> <3A12B25E-C2DA-4F08-8791-C806A5A2BE7A@juniper.net>
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Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 10:46:03 -0400
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Cc: 'Hopps' <chopps@rawdofmt.org>, 'isis-wg' <isis-wg@ietf.org>, Ralph@core3.amsl.com, 'Adrian Farrel' <Adrian.Farrel@huawei.com>, David@core3.amsl.com, 'Droms' <rdroms@cisco.com>, Christian@core3.amsl.com
Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] New Layer2 extensions to ISIS - thorough review will berequired
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Hi Peter and David, I have mentioned this in other contexts as well but I just wanted to mention it again. The UNH InterOperability Laboratory is willing to assist in preparing a report in regards to the interoperability of devices (whether TRILL or 802.1aq) if a third party neutral facilitator is needed. Thanks, David David Bond .~~~~~.~~~~~.~~~~~.~~~~~~.~~~~~~.~~~~~.~~~~~.~~~~~. .University of New Hampshire . . - InterOperability Laboratory . . Research and Development Software Eng. . . Routing & Bridge Functions Consortiums . . - Computer Science PhD Student . . 121 Technology Drive, Suite 2, Durham NH, 03824 . . (O) 1-603-862-3525 (M) 1-603-845-7514 . . http://mokon.net http://iol.unh.edu . .~~~~~.~~~~~.~~~~~.~~~~~~.~~~~~~.~~~~~.~~~~~.~~~~~. > -----Original Message----- > From: isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of David Ward > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 10:17 PM > To: Peter Ashwood-Smith > Cc: Christian@core3.amsl.com; isis-wg; Ralph@core3.amsl.com; > David@core3.amsl.com; Adrian Farrel; Hopps; Droms > Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] New Layer2 extensions to ISIS - thorough review > will berequired > > Peter - > > It's excellent news that there are interoperable implementations of the > .aq TLVs. Can you prepare an implementation report? If you need an > example, please contact me directly. It's all pretty straightforward > stuff. > > -DWard > > On Apr 25, 2010, at 7:59 PM, Peter Ashwood-Smith wrote: > > > > > Well .. I see the emails have been flying over the weekend. > > > > Obviously I agree with Dave, John, Paul and Don that 802.1aq should > be > > separate, that it only needs a few TLVs with no behavioral changes to > IS-IS > > and that OTV needs to follow the proper standards process, for > example by > > presenting and being accepted in the L2VPN working group. > > > > We have no problem with the few TLV's we request being subject to > scrutiny. > > The important ones have had (in slightly varied form) live > deployments and > > several implementations now for well over a year. > > > > Peter > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf > > Of John E Drake > > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:44 PM > > To: John E Drake; David Allan I; David Ward; isis-wg > > Cc: Christian Hopps; Adrian Farrel; Ralph Droms > > Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] New Layer2 extensions to ISIS - thorough > review will > > berequired > > > > Hi, > > > > In particular, it appears that OTV is out of scope wrt the current > charter. > > Also, no one likes proprietary extensions more than I do, but they > should > > have their own document and codepoints. > > > > Thanks, > > > > John > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf > >> Of John E Drake > >> Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 4:19 AM > >> To: David Allan I; David Ward; isis-wg > >> Cc: Christian Hopps; Adrian Farrel; Ralph Droms > >> Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] New Layer2 extensions to ISIS - thorough > review > >> will be required > >> > >> +1 > >> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org] On > >> Behalf > >>> Of David Allan I > >>> Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 9:31 AM > >>> To: David Ward; isis-wg > >>> Cc: Christian Hopps; Adrian Farrel; Ralph Droms > >>> Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] New Layer2 extensions to ISIS - thorough > review > >>> will be required > >>> > >>> Hi Folks: > >>> > >>> While the decision of splitting the drafts is in discussion (and > that is > >> a > >>> direction I favor as the scope of IS-IS changes is radically > different > >> and > >>> disjoint between the "layer 2"s), the question needs to be asked > "what > >> in > >>> the draft survives the split as WG items". > >>> > >>> 802.1aq - yes > >>> TRILL - yes > >>> OTV - does not belong here, it is proprietary... > >>> > >>> If OTV is standardized it COULD be considered by the WG at some > point in > >>> the future. Right now it is simply an wholly inappropriate > complication > >> in > >>> addressing the two technologies the WG has agreed to... > >>> > >>> It should be removed from the draft and a new version published > ASAP. > >>> > >>> My 2 cents > >>> D > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org] On > >> Behalf > >>> Of David Ward > >>> Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 1:30 PM > >>> To: isis-wg > >>> Cc: Christian Hopps; Ralph Droms; Jari Arkko; Adrian Farrel > >>> Subject: [Isis-wg] New Layer2 extensions to ISIS - thorough review > will > >> be > >>> required > >>> > >>> All - > >>> > >>> The WG Chairs would like to be clear on the approach to review and > >>> progression of the draft: draft-ietf-isis-layer2. There will be a > >> request > >>> for the routing directorate, specific guest reviewers and a lengthy > >>> community review. There will also be a requirement of multiple, > >>> interoperable implementations. Whether we split the draft into > TRILL, > >> .aq, > >>> OTV extensions into separate drafts or not, the foundational > changes to > >>> ISIS for each of the technologies will need to be proven working > and > >>> correct. > >>> > >>> The draft itself will need to be cleaned up and clear what PDUs, > TLVs, > >> etc > >>> are necessary for any of this technology which will make reading > and > >>> implementation awareness easier. If we decide to split them (we > will > >>> decide later - please remain calm and not discuss this nit now- > let's > >> get > >>> the information completed as we know it); it will be quite trivial. > If > >> we > >>> decide not to; it will be clear to the reader/implementor. > >>> > >>> The purpose of such a process is because in several decades of the > >>> existence of ISIS and extremely wide deployment, no new PDU types > were > >>> ever deemed necessary. The new TLVs being proposed and the data > being > >>> carried has never been carried before and may cause new scaling, > >>> performance or other impacts that we don't currently understand. We > need > >>> to fully understand the impact of these changes and learn what we > don't > >>> know about the changes we are proposing. I've found in my > experience > >> that > >>> new protocols, new technologies and fundamental changes to > protocols > >>> require a deep understanding and implementation experience and not > a > >> rush > >>> to RFC. Headsup > >>> > >>> Thanks. > >>> > >>> -DWard, CHopps > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Isis-wg mailing list > >>> Isis-wg@ietf.org > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Isis-wg mailing list > >>> Isis-wg@ietf.org > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Isis-wg mailing list > >> Isis-wg@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg > > _______________________________________________ > > Isis-wg mailing list > > Isis-wg@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg > > > > _______________________________________________ > Isis-wg mailing list > Isis-wg@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg
- [Isis-wg] New Layer2 extensions to ISIS - thoroug… David Ward
- Re: [Isis-wg] New Layer2 extensions to ISIS - tho… David Allan I
- Re: [Isis-wg] New Layer2 extensions to ISIS - tho… John E Drake
- Re: [Isis-wg] New Layer2 extensions to ISIS - tho… Paul Unbehagen
- Re: [Isis-wg] New Layer2 extensions to ISIS - tho… John E Drake
- Re: [Isis-wg] New Layer2 extensions to ISIS - tho… Peter Ashwood-Smith
- Re: [Isis-wg] New Layer2 extensions to ISIS - tho… David Ward
- Re: [Isis-wg] New Layer2 extensions to ISIS - tho… Fedyk, Donald (Don)
- Re: [Isis-wg] New Layer2 extensions to ISIS - tho… Stewart Bryant
- Re: [Isis-wg] New Layer2 extensions to ISIS - tho… Paul Unbehagen
- Re: [Isis-wg] New Layer2 extensions to ISIS - tho… Peter Ashwood-Smith
- Re: [Isis-wg] New Layer2 extensions to ISIS - tho… David Michael Bond