Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-auto-conf-04
"Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com> Mon, 23 January 2017 19:45 UTC
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>, Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>, "isis-wg@ietf.org" <isis-wg@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-auto-conf-04
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Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2017 19:45:08 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-auto-conf-04
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Les On 1/22/17, 7:36 PM, "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com> wrote: >Acee - > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Acee Lindem (acee) >> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2017 3:56 PM >> To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg); Christian Hopps; isis-wg@ietf.org >> Cc: draft-ietf-isis-auto-conf@ietf.org; isis-chairs@ietf.org; >>isis-ads@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-auto-conf-04 >> >> Hi Les, >> >> On 1/22/17, 12:57 PM, "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com> >> wrote: >> >> >Acee - >> > >> >Thanx for reviewing the document. >> >Responses inline. >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Isis-wg [mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Acee >> >>Lindem >> >> (acee) >> >> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2017 5:39 AM >> >> To: Christian Hopps; isis-wg@ietf.org >> >> Cc: draft-ietf-isis-auto-conf@ietf.org; isis-chairs@ietf.org; >> >>isis-ads@ietf.org >> >> Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-auto-conf-04 >> >> >> >> Hi IS-IS WG, >> >> >> >> I have reviewed the document and support publication. I have the >> >>following minor comments: >> >> >> >> 1. It should be made clear that the A-Bit indicates that an IS-IS >> >>router supports auto-configuration and, is not, necessarily >> >>auto-configured itself. >> >> After reading the whole draft, I know that this is the definition of >> >>the bit but the initial text says the router is ³operating in >> >>auto-configuration mode.² >> > >> >[Les:] It is clearly stated that the A flag does indeed mean >> > >> >" the router is operating in auto-configuration mode." >> > >> >I do not see any text which suggests otherwise. >> >> But there is no prior definition of “auto-configuration mode”. I think >>most >> readers would believe that this indicates that only routers performing >>auto- >> configuration will form adjacencies. Yet the documents >> states: >> >> This document also defines mechanisms to prevent the unintentional >> interoperation of auto-configured routers with non-autoconfigured >> routers. See Section 3.3. >> >> >> Where is the interoperation? This definitely needs to be clarified - I >>don’t see >> how the authors can argue on this point! >[Les:] Section 3.4.2. Adjacency Formation > > " Routers operating in auto-configuration mode MUST NOT form > adjacencies with routers which are NOT operating in auto- > configuration mode. The presence of the Router Fingerprint TLV with > the A bit set indicates the router is operating in auto-configuration > mode." > >I do not see that anything further is needed. >?? The problem is that there is no prior definition of auto-configuration mode. Hence, one could interpret the above text as only allowing adjacencies between auto-configured routers. This directly contradicts the interoperability with non-autoconfigured routers. > >> >> > >> >??? >> > >> >> 2. In the duplicate detection in section 3.4.3, could you note >> >>that an IS-IS router should be able to detect discern the case where >> >>two interfaces on the IS-IS router performing auto-configuration are >> >>connected to the same network. >> >> >> >[Les:] Multiple connections of the same system to the same network can >> >occur in the absence of auto-configuration and detection of this case >> >is not altered by auto-configuration. This is detected by receiving a >> >hello with the same source MAC address as a local interface. There are >> >then the following cases: >> > >> >1)Two interfaces on the local router are connected to the same media. >> >This is further validated by having the same systemID. The means for >> >detecting this as well as resolving this are not altered by >> >auto-configuration. >> > >> >2)Two neighbors connected to the same network have the same source >> MAC >> >address. This is distinguished by having different system IDs in the >> >hellos. The means for detecting this as well as resolving this are not >> >altered by auto-configuration. >> > >> >3)Two neighbors connected to the same network have the same source >> MAC >> >address and the same systemID. This is distinguished by having >> >different router fingerprint TLVs in the hellos - something only an >> >auto-config router could do. But the additional detection capability >> >does not provide any additional means to correct this issue. >> > >> >The authors discussed this point during the writing of the draft and >> >decided specifically NOT to comment on this issue as it by nature is no >> >different than what can occur without auto-config and there is no good >> >way to automatically recover from this case i.e. clearly we cannot >> >alter the physical connections by programmatic means - nor do we >> >assume/require a programmatic capability of assigning MAC addresses. >> > >> >So, I am not sure what we could say other than to note that this can >> >occur - but non-auto-config implementations already have to detect this >> >- so does it make sense to comment on this in the auto-config draft? >> >> Given that consequences of this mis-wiring are more severe when IS-IS >>auto- >> configuration is being used, I think this deserves at least the >>discussion above >> included in the draft. >> >[Les:] I do not see that this issue is any more/less severe when >operating in autoconfig mode. >Manual intervention is required to resolve the issue regardless of mode - >the protocol cannot heal itself in this case. All we can do is send out a >notification and be smart in the implementation so as to avoid constant >adjacency churn. This behavior is required/recommended regardless of >autoconfig mode. In fact, it could be argued the problem is more severe >for larger networks as the side effects of churn associated with >sub-optimal handling of this problem will be far worse in a large network. > >Interestingly, I do not even see a notification defined for this >condition in the MIB (RFC 4444) - perhaps we will do better when defining >the YANG data model. :-) > >This is perhaps a problem worth discussing - but I don’t see that it is >in any way unique to or related to autoconfig - so adding it to this >specification doesn’t seem appropriate. With the respect to this being a problem in any mode, I agree. One motivation for at least having a statement in this draft is that it specifically addresses duplicate System-ID handling and I’m not sure whether that is addressed in any other IS-IS specifications. However, I don’t feel that strongly. Here is what we had in RFC 7503: An OSPFv3 router implementing this specification should ensure that the inadvertent connection of multiple router interfaces to the same physical link is not misconstrued as detection of an OSPFv3 neighbor with a duplicate Router ID. Thanks, Acee > > Les > > >> Thanks, >> Acee >> >> >> >> > >> > Les >> > >> > >> >> Thanks, >> >> Acee >> >> >> >> On 1/17/17, 7:00 AM, "Isis-wg on behalf of Christian Hopps" >> >> <isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of chopps@chopps.org> wrote: >> >> >> >> > >> >> >Hi Folks, >> >> > >> >> >We are starting a WG Last Call for >> >> > >> >> > "ISIS Auto-Configuration" >> >> > - https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-auto-conf/ >> >> > >> >> >The WGLC will expire in 2 weeks on Jan 31, 2017. >> >> > >> >> >Thanks, >> >> >Chris & Hannes. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Isis-wg mailing list >> >> Isis-wg@ietf.org >> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg >
- [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-auto-c… Christian Hopps
- Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-au… Acee Lindem (acee)
- Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-au… Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
- Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-au… Acee Lindem (acee)
- Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-au… Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
- Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-au… Acee Lindem (acee)
- Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-au… Acee Lindem (acee)
- Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-au… Marc Binderberger
- Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-au… Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
- Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-au… Marc Binderberger
- Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-au… Liubing (Leo)