Re: [Isis-wg] [netmod] FW: New Version Notification for draft-litkowski-netmod-isis-cfg-00.txt

Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> Thu, 19 June 2014 17:06 UTC

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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 10:06:22 -0700
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From: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>
To: "t.petch" <ietfc@btconnect.com>
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Cc: "isis-wg@ietf.org list \(isis-wg@ietf.org\)" <isis-wg@ietf.org>, "netmod@ietf.org" <netmod@ietf.org>, Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>
Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] [netmod] FW: New Version Notification for draft-litkowski-netmod-isis-cfg-00.txt
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On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 9:31 AM, t.petch <ietfc@btconnect.com> wrote:

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Alia Atlas" <akatlas@gmail.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2014 6:26 PM
>
> > isis-wg is the right place.
>
> Alia
>
> In a year or two, I expect that I would agree with you but right now,
> the netmod WG has only just produced the basic models and in doing so,
> found the need for some necessary modifications to YANG; and, in the
> past 18 months, radically changed (IMO) the layout of most modules, to
> the twin trees, cfg and state approach.
>
> Give a year or two's experience of writing modules and there will
> doubtless be guidelines on what to do and what not to do, but right now,
> I think that the active involvement of the netmod group is essential.
>
>
I do not see config vs. operational subtrees as a major architecture change.
The expansion of functionality needs to be done with clue. Supporting
pre-provisioning and protocol controlled operational state may require
a separate tree, depending on the data model. IMO this should not a generic
solution.

The guidelines are bound to change the more standard functionality we addl
This should not slow down WGs using the existing functionality.



> I propose a three part approach; start in netmod to get the current
> thinking of how to tackle common problems (the sort of things that Lada
> has addressed although I disagree with him over the use of TLV - that is
> how isis does things:-)
>
>
The problem with this approach is that the NETMOD WG is a "plain old" WG,
with a charter to produce YANG 1.1 and other documents.  It is not chartered
to be the YANG Help Desk for the IETF. That is YANG Doctors' job.

It does not really scale well either (as we have seen from several YANG
proposals
that are waiting years to get chartered). NETMOD is already a bottleneck.
IMO, NETMOD should work on YANG 1.1, YANG Conformance,
and YANG Usage Guidelines.  It is time for domain-specific WGs to
work on YANG modules for their protocols.



Then move to isis to get technicalities of the protocol correct, what to
> model, what is config, defaults, etc
>
>
A YANG Doctor (Lada) will help the isis WG.
The proper YANG usage is actually much easier to achieve than agreeing
on the exact text of every single protocol knob (by a mile),.
The protocol experts pay attention to the protocol WGs, not NETMOD.
Their review is easily missed if all YANG work is done in NETMOD.


Then back to netmod to see that it still aligns with netmod best
> practice (which likely will have moved on)
>
>
This will happen as part of the AD review process.
I don't think YANG best practices are changing so rapidly that rewrites
will be required.
We will see wrt/ I2RS and YANG 1.1, but that should not affect any WG that
wants to standardize YANG configuration data models with YANG 1.0.




> Tom Petch
>
>

Andy



> > Alia
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 4:30 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder <
> > j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 08:11:24AM +0000,
> stephane.litkowski@orange.com
> > > wrote:
> > > > Hi Lada,
> > > >
> > > > For sure ISIS WG need to be involved, for ownership of the draft,
> I
> > > don't really know which WG need to be "owner". Maybe chairs can
> provide
> > > their feedback or we could discuss this point in Toronto.
> > > > I'm would like to present this first version in both WG if
> possible.
> > > >
> > >
> > > As a general principle, I prefer that data models are done in the
> WGs
> > > that understand what is being modeled. Hence, this work should
> ideally
> > > be done in the ISIS WG.
> > >
> > > Since I am not following the ISIS WG myself, I ended up looking at
> the
> > > WG charter page in order to get a clue what they are working on and
> > > what I found is that apparently their milestones have not been
> updated
> > > since 2009 (and the additional page pointed to in the charter,
> > > <http://skat.usc.edu/~tli/Schedule.htm>, does not look more recent
> > > either). So it remains somewhat difficult to judge whether ISIS may
> be
> > > able to pick up this work.
> > >
> > > /js
> > >
> > > --
> > > Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
> > > Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany
> > > Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > netmod mailing list
> > > netmod@ietf.org
> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
> > >
> >
>
>
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