Re: [ipwave] 5G deployment status

[Abdussalam Baryun <[e-mail]>]

On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 4:47 PM Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong <
[e-mail]> wrote:

> Hi Alex,
> Thanks for your opinion and status of 5G.
>
> I think IPWAVE needs to consider IPv6 over C-V2X based on 5G because
> C-V2X has higher bandwidth than 802.11-OCB based on WAVE.
>

It is good to consider both or more which are used, even if the bandwidth
is less or cost is higher.


> My SKKU group is studying how to efficiently support IPv6 over C-V2X in
> vehicular networks.
> This will be a possible WG item for IPWAVE WG.
>

Thanks I agree it is interesting for our WG.

AB

>
> Thanks.
>
> Paul
>
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 9:50 PM Alexandre Petrescu <
> [e-mail] <[e-mail]>> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Le 25/09/2019 à 16:13, Alexandre Petrescu a écrit :
>> > Hi
>> >
>> > Le 20/09/2019 à 04:23, Sharon Barkai and Dick Roy ([RR]) wrote:
>> > [...]
>> >>> */[RR] This is a really long story, however, C-V2X is being specified
>> >>> as an alternative to US DSRC, not as a cellular access technology
>> >>> since that’s already available and deployed.  The reason LTE Release
>> >>> 14 and successors is being specified has nothing to do with its
>> >>> lineage as a child of cellular; in fact, it is provably a square peg
>> >>> being forced into a round hole and we all know how that generally
>> >>> ends up, and that’s a story for another day/*
>> >>>
>> >>> The 5G evolution is supposed to match the latency of peer to peer
>> WiFi.
>> >
>> > When that matches, WiFi will have leaped forward to below
>> > 100micro-second latency.  This was so (cellular catching up with a
>> > leaping forward WiFi latency) since the invention of WiFi 20 years ago,
>> > and it wont change.  It's a constant of evolution.
>> >
>> >>> */[RR] 5G is nothing but hype at the moment
>> >
>> > Here is a more precise status, according to my personal understanding.
>> > This obviously differs from many people's understandings, who may be
>> > more knowledgeable.
>> >
>> > In France, frequencies for use in 5G radio would start to be discussed
>> > now in September, with allocation towards December.  The allocation is
>> > similar, but not quite like, the process that was used for 3G: auction
>> > sales.  The differences from 3G are: (1) it is not expected to generate
>> > huge revenues for gov't and (2) some sales, like of the 3.5GHz band,
>> > would actually be a re-allocation from what was previously allocated to
>> > wimax operators  (e.g. SDH in France) and to City Authority (like
>> Mayor)
>> > in places where there was no operator).
>> >
>> > Obviously, until these frequencies are allocated one cant really talk
>> > about 5G deployment on public roads, even if...
>> >
>> > If one wants to talk about 5G like when talking a higher bandwidth and
>> > lower latency than 4G, then one assumes 4G to be 50ms latency and
>> > 2Mbit/s bandwidth.  One can talk then about 25ms latency and 10Mbit/s,
>> > and claim that to be 5G.  But it is not 5G.  It is just another Class
>> or
>> > Category of 4G.  In theory, one can still be 4G and run at 1Gbps (e.g.
>> > Category 16).
>> >
>> > Also, one can talk about a higher bandwidth outdoors network by running
>> > 802.11 WiFi on 5.4 GHz and, why not, at 5.9GHz.
>> >
>> > Colleagues call these 'acrobatics 5G'.
>> >
>> > This is when one wonders: what is 5G anyways? with its associated
>> > question: why was the predecessor of 5G called 'LTE' (Long Term
>> > Evolution), or where is the long term?  Is 5G LTE?
>> >
>> > With respect to other countries, I heard two recent announcements,
>> about
>> > Spain and Germany.
>> >
>> > They both claim 5G is deployed in the respective areas.
>> >
>> > This claims 15 cities in Spain on June 15th, by Vodafone:
>> >
>> https://www.xataka.com/empresas-y-economia/red-5g-comercial-vodafone-espana-tiene-fecha-lanzamiento-15-ciudades-15-junio
>> >
>> >
>> > This claims 5 cities in Germany, but it does not say when, by Deutsche
>> > Telekom:
>> > https://www.telekom.de/start/netzausbau?wt_mc=alias_1070_netzausbau
>> >
>> > As hardware for end users, this is the situation now:
>> > - there is no 5G smartphone for sale in France.  I guess it is the same
>> >    in more countries.  If it were different, it would be an isolation
>> >    easily spot by many.
>> > - iphone 11 just launched features 'Gigabit-class LTE' and 'LTE
>> >    Advanced' but no '5G'.  They run on 'LTE Bands' which are your
>> typical
>> >    frequencies below 5GHz for cellular communications, but nowhere like
>> a
>> >    26GHz of 5G.  No such band is called a '5G band'.
>>
>> Further details after searches of public documents:
>>
>> iphone 11 pro understands a 5G frequency band:
>>
>> it is specified to understand several frequency bands, among which also
>> TD-LTE Band number 42, which is 3400MHz - 3600MHz.  This band is a 5G
>> band.  Part of this band (3490MHz - 3600MHz) is being considered for
>> allocation by regulator ARCEP.  It has not yet been allocated, but under
>> discussion.
>>
>> ARCEP considers to also allocate Band 43 at 3600MHz - 3800MHz, for 5G.
>> But this band is not covered by iphone 11 specs.
>>
>> ARCEP is silent about the range 3400MHz-3490MHz.  I suspect there might
>> be some errors here.
>>
>> iphone 11 pro also understands TD-LTE Band 46 at 5150 MHz - 5925 MHz,
>> which covers WiFi 5.4GHz and 802.11-OCB at 5.9GHz.  I suspect there
>> would be some clashes here between deployed Road-Side Units and iphones.
>>
>> For highways and roads requirements, ARCEP seems to plan to require the
>> licensee to cover them by December 2025.  And the required bandwidth is
>> between 50mbit/s to 100Mbit/s and 10ms latency.  These figures are
>> obviously little incitative, because 2025 is very late, 50mbit/s is what
>> 4G already does and 10ms is much higher than 1ms 802.11-OCB today.
>>
>> On another hand, ARCEP requires the 5G licensee to support IPv6,
>> starting end of 2020. (in French: "Le  titulaire  est  tenu  de  rendre
>> son  réseau  mobile  compatible  avec  le  protocole  de  routage  IPv6
>> à compter du 31décembre2020.").  This means that by that time, if IPv6
>> under its form IPv6-over-OCB does not see a huge deployment compared to
>> just 802.11-OCB WSMP, it might be that IPv6-over-5G on routes would be
>> more likely.  Which may raise a question of the potential usefulness of
>> a spec IPv6-over-5G.
>>
>> So, this is to say that where I live it is not very clear how these
>> things will unfold.
>>
>> Alex
>>
>>
>> > - one can buy off the shelf modules, like miniPCIe (I have a list) that
>> >    go very high in terms of bandwidth, well beyond what normal 4G would
>> >    do, but couldnt really use them at that high parameters.
>> >
>> > Alex
>> >
>> >>> and simply matching the latency would be no reason to switch from
>> >>> DSRC to another access technology for V2V safety, though nothing
>> >>> prevents the addition of 5G NR access technologies in ITS stations
>> >>> (aka OBUs) for other uses. /*
>> >
>> > I agree.
>> >
>> > [...]
>> >
>> > Alex
>> >
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>
> --
> ===========================
> Mr. Jaehoon (Paul) Jeong, Ph.D.
> Associate Professor
> Department of Software
> Sungkyunkwan University
> Office: [phone]
> Email: [e-mail], [e-mail]
> Personal Homepage: http://iotlab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php
> <http://cpslab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php>
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