Re: [ipwave] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-26.txt

"Templin (US), Fred L" <> Wed, 23 February 2022 14:42 UTC

Return-Path: <>
Received: from localhost (localhost []) by (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFF233A101A for <>; Wed, 23 Feb 2022 06:42:43 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -7.098
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key)
Received: from ([]) by localhost ( []) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wiRiShpQLIXA for <>; Wed, 23 Feb 2022 06:42:37 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ( []) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A7AFB3A1013 for <>; Wed, 23 Feb 2022 06:42:36 -0800 (PST)
Received: from localhost (localhost []) by (8.15.2/8.15.2/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with SMTP id 21NEgVUK014372; Wed, 23 Feb 2022 09:42:34 -0500
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;; s=boeing-s1912; t=1645627354; bh=ViikfwlEnOzkIHkLyOWTmV94iuaqfCvD0uS0eSQD3EU=; h=From:To:CC:Subject:Date:From; b=inx1rne25Z55lN8RJgysP6L7HlINUl31kcfHXS15LhHuIAUECv4x3k59BJJtpccPQ 3rdPDlDoTYtog1ZANq3rhQqnU7oFy1xwaDzP6kuDDFVT9LXFgwDKGPUrvr0OpyRxeg wiwtmy81chsWk51r8EEHbA0TO/rH4YqG5LZ8LBitc42aOa5ucY+PzqLJvXZzOtinuB AbAFCMF9biXL2d4Zk6kAVowjSbwJC6ggYJ0fNPEOPsXLWbLyjxLFWJZVWv7DbH7Uuc zMKRm8x7NKnHVGb0gF1DYpc5csS2Lo2IeEzt9+6W9SRNHtndmArk7aAtisPzjkYZbW 9HRTt08EMa8gg==
Received: from ( []) by (8.15.2/8.15.2/8.15.2/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTPS id 21NEgQQQ014321 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 23 Feb 2022 09:42:26 -0500
Received: from ( by ( with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.2375.18; Wed, 23 Feb 2022 06:42:24 -0800
Received: from ([fe80::e065:4e77:ac47:d9a8]) by ([fe80::e065:4e77:ac47:d9a8%2]) with mapi id 15.01.2375.018; Wed, 23 Feb 2022 06:42:24 -0800
From: "Templin (US), Fred L" <>
To: Erik Kline <>
CC: "" <>, "" <>, "" <>, "" <>, "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <>
Thread-Topic: [ipwave] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-26.txt
Thread-Index: Adgow2VhCCweD8deQxyKzVFUIXd4lw==
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2022 14:42:24 +0000
Message-ID: <>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
x-originating-ip: []
x-tm-snts-smtp: 19D82666BD71ADA2AE75662F47E90A3F18EEFA8B036B56CB3BA6890CF882F7072000:8
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_e24408486c7a4a00813cf1740ceea3e3boeingcom_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Archived-At: <>
Subject: Re: [ipwave] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-26.txt
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <>
List-Unsubscribe: <>, <>
List-Archive: <>
List-Post: <>
List-Help: <>
List-Subscribe: <>, <>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2022 14:42:44 -0000

Erik, please stand by. I will be posting my change suggestions to the document soon
(today or tomorrow). As we have seen, new draft versions can come through quickly
so please stand by for one that will incorporate my comments.

Thanks - Fred

From: Erik Kline []
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2022 10:30 PM
To: Templin (US), Fred L <>
Cc:;;;; Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [ipwave] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-26.txt

EXT email: be mindful of links/attachments.

I apologize; I see now the diff is small.  I was terribly afraid that the fast-rev'ing version numbers meant lots of text was in flight (as opposed to just being held for fixing small things during incorporation of IESG feedback).

Russ, Carlos,

If you think this document is not ready for the IESG telechat let me know and I'll pull it back so it can get some more rounds of consideration.  For now I'm inclined to let it stay.

Thanks, and apologies,

On Tue, Feb 22, 2022 at 10:22 PM Erik Kline <<>> wrote:
The inclusion of the OMNI stuff was highlihgted during the LC, and I agreed to advance draft 25 to the IESG telechat.

Now I have to re-review draft 27.  I don't know what's changed, but, in general, please avoid major surgery between IETF LC and IESG telechat.  We might need to pull draft 27 back for a 2nd LC.

/me goes to have a look and the diff...

On Tue, Feb 22, 2022 at 7:58 AM Templin (US), Fred L <<>> wrote:
Doesn’t work, Dirk. Several months ago, Paul took my edits and the document looked
good. Then, someone came in later without my knowing about it and said “take out
all of the AERO/OMNI stuff”, and no one told me about it. This is no longer a balanced
document; this is a document that embraces a particular solution alternative while
ignoring another.

You and I had a testy exchange earlier; if your message is a continuation of that
exchange I can tell you that I do not appreciate it.


From:<> [<>]
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2022 7:46 AM
To: Templin (US), Fred L <<>>;<>;<>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] AW: [ipwave] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-26.txt

EXT email: be mindful of links/attachments.

Dear Fred, Paul, Russ and all,
From my point of view - only loosely following this discussion - I do agree that Paul has achieved a good balance between different protocols included/mentioned. Thanks for that!

Just a small typo: on page 3 it should also read
‘Automatic Extended Route Optimization (AERO)’ instead of ‘Asymmetric Extended Route Optimization (AERO)’
And maybe one could add on p. 14 the sentence
‘Refer to Appendix A for the description how OMNI can support use of multiple radio technologies in V2X’.

Would that help? What do you think?
Best regards

Von: its <<>> Im Auftrag von Templin (US), Fred L
Gesendet: Dienstag, 22. Februar 2022 15:35
An: Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong <<>>; Russ Housley <<>>
Betreff: Re: [ipwave] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-26.txt

The way the document is now, it reads as an endorsement for a particular approach.
The document was good last time I read it (which is a while ago) but I guess someone
got you to make drastic changes without my knowing about it. The document cannot
go forward in its current form.


From: Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong []
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2022 7:50 PM
To: Russ Housley <<>>; Templin (US), Fred L <<>>
Cc:<>; Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong <<>>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [ipwave] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-26.txt

EXT email: be mindful of links/attachments.

Hi Russ,
I have replied to Fred's email just before.
As the editor, I tried to balance the two approaches even though the text of AERO/OMNI is reduced.

I hope you can understand my position as the editor.


Best Regards,

On Tue, Feb 22, 2022 at 5:26 AM Russ Housley <<>> wrote:
Paul and Fred:

I think the update is more aligned with the documents that are advancing one the IETF stream.  That said, I would not be apposed to the inclusion of the 6M's, but not in a way that claims that there is only one approach way to address these things.  What do you think about that was a way forward?


> On Feb 21, 2022, at 2:56 PM, Templin (US), Fred L <<>> wrote:
> Hi, I started reviewing this and found that it has been completely overhauled since I put my
> comments in many months ago. It has in fact been completely rewritten to favor the shared
> IPv6 multilink subnet model over multihop networks, to favor RPL/6LowPan over standard
> MANET routing protocols, to favor IPv6 ND changes over standard IPv6 ND, and to favor
> multilink DAD. None of that is necessary with AERO/OMNI and the NBMA-based virtual link
> created by the OMNI Adaptation. So, I stopped midway through marking up the document
> with my comments because it has taken a complete left turn and started down a wrong path.
> What is mainly at the heart of the divergence is that the document now embraces the
> multilink IPv6 subnet model vs the AERO/OMNI NBMA link model that was there the last
> time I looked. But, there is no need for such complication when there is a much simpler
> alternative at hand. I notice also that in the appendices the AERO/OMNI "6M's of Mobile
> Internetworking" was removed - at the very least that needs to be restored.
> In its current form, this document has been diverted to go down the wrong path. It
> needs to be either re-balanced or re-written.
> Thanks - Fred
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: its [<>] On Behalf Of Templin (US), Fred L
>> Sent: Monday, February 21, 2022 7:28 AM
>> To:<>;<>
>> Subject: Re: [ipwave] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-26.txt
>> Hi, it looks like a lot of what was in the draft regarding AERO/OMNI has been cut out
>> so that means I am going to have to re-review it. I will get to this a soon as possible;
>> hopefully in the next couple of days.
>> Fred
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: its [<>] On Behalf Of<>
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2022 9:00 PM
>>> To:<>
>>> Cc:<>
>>> Subject: [EXTERNAL] [ipwave] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-26.txt
>>> EXT email: be mindful of links/attachments.
>>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
>>> This draft is a work item of the IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG of the IETF.
>>>        Title           : IPv6 Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments (IPWAVE): Problem Statement and Use Cases
>>>        Author          : Jaehoon (Paul) Jeong
>>>     Filename        : draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-26.txt
>>>     Pages           : 49
>>>     Date            : 2022-02-20
>>> Abstract:
>>>   This document discusses the problem statement and use cases of
>>>   IPv6-based vehicular networking for Intelligent Transportation
>>>   Systems (ITS).  The main scenarios of vehicular communications are
>>>   vehicle-to-vehicle (V2V), vehicle-to-infrastructure (V2I), and
>>>   vehicle-to-everything (V2X) communications.  First, this document
>>>   explains use cases using V2V, V2I, and V2X networking.  Next, for
>>>   IPv6-based vehicular networks, it makes a gap analysis of current
>>>   IPv6 protocols (e.g., IPv6 Neighbor Discovery, Mobility Management,
>>>   and Security & Privacy), and then enumerates requirements for the
>>>   extensions of those IPv6 protocols for IPv6-based vehicular
>>>   networking.
>>> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
>>> There is also an htmlized version available at:
>>> A diff from the previous version is available at:
>>> Internet-Drafts are also available by rsync at
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> its mailing list
>> _______________________________________________
>> its mailing list
> _______________________________________________
> its mailing list
its mailing list<>