Re: [ipwave] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-26.txt

[[e-mail]]

Hi Fred,
sorry if I should have used aggressive wording or other ways of not constructively discussed – it wasn’t meant as such!
BTW I can’t remember the heated discussion you mention – perhaps I haven’t realized but be assured that I am also not interested in that.
What I meant was that after a quick review the different protocols considered in the draft seem to me to be more or less here similarly treated – whether AERO and OMNI or (P)MIP6, DMM, etc. – except that RPL is discussed in more detail – but also pointing to disadvantages explicitly.
IMHO the shortening was due to the overall length of the document but I may be wrong.
Sorry for un-deliberately upsetting you!

Best Regards
Dirk


Von: Templin (US), Fred L <[e-mail]>
Gesendet: Dienstag, 22. Februar 2022 16:57
An: von Hugo, Dirk <[e-mail]>; [e-mail]; [e-mail]
Cc: [e-mail]
Betreff: RE: [ipwave] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-26.txt

Doesn’t work, Dirk. Several months ago, Paul took my edits and the document looked
good. Then, someone came in later without my knowing about it and said “take out
all of the AERO/OMNI stuff”, and no one told me about it. This is no longer a balanced
document; this is a document that embraces a particular solution alternative while
ignoring another.

You and I had a testy exchange earlier; if your message is a continuation of that
exchange I can tell you that I do not appreciate it.

Fred

From: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]> [mailto:[e-mail]]
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2022 7:46 AM
To: Templin (US), Fred L <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Cc: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] AW: [ipwave] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-26.txt

EXT email: be mindful of links/attachments.


Dear Fred, Paul, Russ and all,
From my point of view - only loosely following this discussion - I do agree that Paul has achieved a good balance between different protocols included/mentioned. Thanks for that!

Just a small typo: on page 3 it should also read
‘Automatic Extended Route Optimization (AERO)’ instead of ‘Asymmetric Extended Route Optimization (AERO)’
And maybe one could add on p. 14 the sentence
‘Refer to Appendix A for the description how OMNI can support use of multiple radio technologies in V2X’.

Would that help? What do you think?
Thanks
Best regards
Dirk


Von: its <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> Im Auftrag von Templin (US), Fred L
Gesendet: Dienstag, 22. Februar 2022 15:35
An: Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; Russ Housley <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Cc: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Betreff: Re: [ipwave] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-26.txt

The way the document is now, it reads as an endorsement for a particular approach.
The document was good last time I read it (which is a while ago) but I guess someone
got you to make drastic changes without my knowing about it. The document cannot
go forward in its current form.

Fred

From: Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong [mailto:[e-mail]]
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2022 7:50 PM
To: Russ Housley <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; Templin (US), Fred L <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Cc: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>; Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [ipwave] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-26.txt

EXT email: be mindful of links/attachments.


Hi Russ,
I have replied to Fred's email just before.
As the editor, I tried to balance the two approaches even though the text of AERO/OMNI is reduced.

Fred,
I hope you can understand my position as the editor.

Thanks.

Best Regards,
Paul


On Tue, Feb 22, 2022 at 5:26 AM Russ Housley <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
Paul and Fred:

I think the update is more aligned with the documents that are advancing one the IETF stream.  That said, I would not be apposed to the inclusion of the 6M's, but not in a way that claims that there is only one approach way to address these things.  What do you think about that was a way forward?

Russ


> On Feb 21, 2022, at 2:56 PM, Templin (US), Fred L <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>
> Hi, I started reviewing this and found that it has been completely overhauled since I put my
> comments in many months ago. It has in fact been completely rewritten to favor the shared
> IPv6 multilink subnet model over multihop networks, to favor RPL/6LowPan over standard
> MANET routing protocols, to favor IPv6 ND changes over standard IPv6 ND, and to favor
> multilink DAD. None of that is necessary with AERO/OMNI and the NBMA-based virtual link
> created by the OMNI Adaptation. So, I stopped midway through marking up the document
> with my comments because it has taken a complete left turn and started down a wrong path.
>
> What is mainly at the heart of the divergence is that the document now embraces the
> multilink IPv6 subnet model vs the AERO/OMNI NBMA link model that was there the last
> time I looked. But, there is no need for such complication when there is a much simpler
> alternative at hand. I notice also that in the appendices the AERO/OMNI "6M's of Mobile
> Internetworking" was removed - at the very least that needs to be restored.
>
> In its current form, this document has been diverted to go down the wrong path. It
> needs to be either re-balanced or re-written.
>
> Thanks - Fred
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: its [mailto:[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>] On Behalf Of Templin (US), Fred L
>> Sent: Monday, February 21, 2022 7:28 AM
>> To: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
>> Subject: Re: [ipwave] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-26.txt
>>
>> Hi, it looks like a lot of what was in the draft regarding AERO/OMNI has been cut out
>> so that means I am going to have to re-review it. I will get to this a soon as possible;
>> hopefully in the next couple of days.
>>
>> Fred
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: its [mailto:[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>] On Behalf Of [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2022 9:00 PM
>>> To: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
>>> Cc: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
>>> Subject: [EXTERNAL] [ipwave] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-26.txt
>>>
>>> EXT email: be mindful of links/attachments.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
>>> This draft is a work item of the IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG of the IETF.
>>>
>>>        Title           : IPv6 Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments (IPWAVE): Problem Statement and Use Cases
>>>        Author          : Jaehoon (Paul) Jeong
>>>     Filename        : draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-26.txt
>>>     Pages           : 49
>>>     Date            : 2022-02-20
>>>
>>> Abstract:
>>>   This document discusses the problem statement and use cases of
>>>   IPv6-based vehicular networking for Intelligent Transportation
>>>   Systems (ITS).  The main scenarios of vehicular communications are
>>>   vehicle-to-vehicle (V2V), vehicle-to-infrastructure (V2I), and
>>>   vehicle-to-everything (V2X) communications.  First, this document
>>>   explains use cases using V2V, V2I, and V2X networking.  Next, for
>>>   IPv6-based vehicular networks, it makes a gap analysis of current
>>>   IPv6 protocols (e.g., IPv6 Neighbor Discovery, Mobility Management,
>>>   and Security & Privacy), and then enumerates requirements for the
>>>   extensions of those IPv6 protocols for IPv6-based vehicular
>>>   networking.
>>>
>>>
>>> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking/
>>>
>>> There is also an htmlized version available at:
>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-26
>>>
>>> A diff from the previous version is available at:
>>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-26
>>>
>>>
>>> Internet-Drafts are also available by rsync at rsync.ietf.org::internet-drafts
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> its mailing list
>>> [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> its mailing list
>> [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its
>
> _______________________________________________
> its mailing list
> [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its