Re: [ipwave] Commenting on the FCC plan
Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Mon, 25 January 2021 16:58 UTC
Return-Path: <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CE703A150B for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 25 Jan 2021 08:58:45 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: 3.155
X-Spam-Level: ***
X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.155 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD=1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=1.2, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.972, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X625IkDxDTz2 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 25 Jan 2021 08:58:43 -0800 (PST)
Received: from cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.148]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 631AC3A150A for <its@ietf.org>; Mon, 25 Jan 2021 08:58:43 -0800 (PST)
Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by cirse-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id 10PGwfck024170 for <its@ietf.org>; Mon, 25 Jan 2021 17:58:41 +0100
Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 472DE2093E0 for <its@ietf.org>; Mon, 25 Jan 2021 17:58:41 +0100 (CET)
Received: from muguet2-smtp-out.intra.cea.fr (muguet2-smtp-out.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.13]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D2C3205347 for <its@ietf.org>; Mon, 25 Jan 2021 17:58:41 +0100 (CET)
Received: from [10.14.2.198] ([10.14.2.198]) by muguet2-sys.intra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id 10PGweU9009123 for <its@ietf.org>; Mon, 25 Jan 2021 17:58:41 +0100
To: its@ietf.org
References: <EED81985-1D4C-41B2-8CCA-A46B96390A18@vigilsec.com> <1c70cda6-050b-e018-6786-abd99281b6bb@gmail.com> <CADnDZ8-opM3O5U7-C8v+KYTX6-ruQzajRZgDWzzZtXRnJt575Q@mail.gmail.com> <ad3ccd6c-cd99-c47a-d0df-bfb94b5ab40f@gmail.com> <CADnDZ8_wwa91-5UWeqxhJy=nMBp8kwu4ZvfxsAojZCY9DG8jSA@mail.gmail.com> <92850021-914f-ab6a-f8d2-ab793179fa1b@gmail.com> <00d601d5b4ee$01cc9ae0$0565d0a0$@eurecom.fr> <47f48fca-07b9-5657-4cb5-54cc5d63d2e3@gmail.com> <b9ea5f34-0129-614b-d644-0ab95437f6ac@gmail.com> <7664b128-91b7-8fef-1e13-b681b45b1958@gmail.com> <61f9d6f6-1e37-6e15-3a48-48e7047f0fe1@gmail.com> <CADnDZ88tsTvRdr4_jpWxnT0X_3ihTJ8=783-6M-kFNS+uMnA3Q@mail.gmail.com> <b7d40c34-ccdd-2617-0598-62a4b7faf994@gmail.com> <7f2e764a-8d75-a3a8-cd4e-a4406dd8e321@gmail.com> <038fea3b-cdd3-dbe3-04f9-fbe873661cf1@gmail.com> <0e29e730-e62a-f864-ad10-81f5e524bf33@gmail.com>
From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b8c89459-0778-9c50-64d7-0373e38cfb17@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2021 17:58:40 +0100
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.6.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <0e29e730-e62a-f864-ad10-81f5e524bf33@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Language: fr
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/gcayaD7kviYZAMJdgdtfTXJ8ZuQ>
Subject: Re: [ipwave] Commenting on the FCC plan
X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/>
List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2021 16:58:45 -0000
Hi, IPWAVErs, Do you know what is the result of this plan of allocating 5.9GHz bands for C-V2X? Have I missed a follow up of it? https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-seeks-promote-innovation-59-ghz-band-0 Alex Le 10/07/2020 à 14:42, Alexandre Petrescu a écrit : > Hello, > > I would like to know wheher FCC advanced well while seeking to promote > innovation in the 5.9GHz band? > > In particular, is now IPv6 allowed to run on the control channel > 5895-5905MHz on 802.11 in OCB mode? > > The URL to the FCC document stating that seeking of promotion of > innovation is this, but I cant figure out a conclusion of it(?) > https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-seeks-promote-innovation-59-ghz-band-0 > > Alex > > Le 24/01/2020 à 15:11, Alexandre Petrescu a écrit : >> for information, the filing is now visible at >> https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/filing/10115292918548 >> >> >> Le 15/01/2020 à 21:34, Alexandre Petrescu a écrit : >>> I submitted the comments that are shown in the attached file. >>> >>> It is possible to submit more comments, maybe with more help from >>> interested parties, or to clarify other things. It's the same URL >>> https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/filings >>> >>> Alex >>> >>> Le 15/01/2020 à 21:11, Alexandre Petrescu a écrit : >>>> 6. "In support of its waiver request, 5GAA submitted studies of >>>> using 10- and 20-megahertz-wide channels for C-V2X that found that >>>> allowing operation on a single 20-megahertz channel will support the >>>> introduction >>>> of services “that [will] enable many important safety applications, >>>> such as red light warnings, basic safety messages, emergency alerts, >>>> and others, to enhance traffic systems and operations.”" >>>> >>>> My comment is the following: one would benefit from considering >>>> carefully the statements from 5GAA. Depending how it is interpreted >>>> it might be advantageous or not. For my part, I do think that some >>>> of the claims of 5GAA in some trials make confusions about cellular >>>> technology and DSRC technology. I do think that there is at least >>>> one publicly demonstrated trial under the banner of 5GAA which uses >>>> DSRC but it claims cellular technology. >>>> >>>> That said, with respect to the use of the term "C-V2X": it is not >>>> very clear throughout the FCC Notice whether C-V2X means the >>>> traditional traits of cellular technology that distinguishes it from >>>> WiFi (i.e. use cellular frequencies, use a SIM, specific codecs, >>>> mandatory base station, etc.) or otherwise it means some more >>>> generic "3GPP" technology. The only place where C-V2X is defined >>>> more properly is when, on page 37, it refers to 3GPP Release 14. >>>> There is no pointer to a particular 3GPP Rel 14 document. This lets >>>> open the imagination to think that it might mean the WiFi aspects of >>>> 3GPP. 3GPP is known to spec things by stepping into WiFi domain very >>>> often, even though in practice there are no 3GPP deployments on WiFi >>>> - and that, since 3G onwards :-) In this sense, it might be that >>>> 'C-V2X' already means something from WiFi, and why not C-V2X to mean >>>> 802.11-OCB and BSM messages? >>>> >>>> This lack of precision in mentioning "C-V2X" is what adds a lot to >>>> the confusion - should one accept C-V2X in 5.9GHz bands? Well yes, >>>> provided 'C-V2X' means a WiFi issued by 3GPP by copy/pasting IEEE. >>>> Well no, if 'C-V2X' means a pure cellular interface with a SIM card >>>> or software, mandatory base station, cellular codecs and specific >>>> expensive specific IPR from well-known particular companies. >>>> >>>> 7. "With this Notice, we propose that ITS in this band continue to >>>> provide safety of life services. We seek comment on this proposal." >>>> >>>> This is my comment, and backed by a colleague from IETF: on which >>>> channel should we run IPv6-over-OCB? (RFC 8691) >>>> >>>> 8. "C-V2X in the 5.905-5.925 GHz band. Specifically, we propose to >>>> authorize C-V2X operations in the upper 20 megahertz of the band >>>> (5.905-5.925 GHz). We seek specific and detailed comment on this >>>> proposal that can fully inform our decision." >>>> >>>> This is my detailed comment: when one wants to authorize a >>>> particular technology on a particular band, then one would like to >>>> make sure that technology is fully specified and understood. It is >>>> not the case now with 'C-V2X'. It is a rather new term. Is it only >>>> the V2X part of 3GPP? Is it the WiFi part of it? Which spec is >>>> meant more precisely? >>>> >>>> This is why, in return, I would like to comment and request to >>>> publicize what more precisely is it meant by C-V2X? >>>> >>>> 8. "We seek comment on the available technical studies on C-V2X that >>>> should inform our consideration of C-V2X, including any recent studies >>>> that provide information about how C-V2X would operate in the 5.9 >>>> GHz band." >>>> >>>> Where are these technical studies? Which ones? >>>> >>>> 9. "We first seek comment on whether to authorize C-V2X operations >>>> in the 5.895-5.905 GHz band." >>>> >>>> My answer is no. C-V2X is not specified, and it is a too wide term >>>> that might mean too many things. If C-V2X means the WiFi part of >>>> 3GPP, and in particular 802.11-2016, in particular OCB mode, in >>>> particular BSM messages, then the answer is yes, definitely. This >>>> would also allow RFC 8691 IPv6 over 802.11-OCB to work. >>>> >>>> 10. "Commenters should provide detailed justification to support >>>> specific band plan options, including the types of services that >>>> could or could not be delivered by unlicensed use or by >>>> vehicularrelated >>>> services under each option." >>>> >>>> The type of the service that I need is the following: forming of >>>> convoy of 3 self-driving cars - they use IPv6 over 802.11-OCB on 3 >>>> distinct 5.9GHz channels in order to minimize interference. This >>>> could not be delivered if only one channel was available for RFC >>>> 8691 IPv6-over-802.11-OCB. The demo is filmed and publicly >>>> available on the web. >>>> >>>> 11. "(a) DSRCS Roadside Units (RSUs) operating in the 5895-5905 MHz >>>> band must comply with the technical standard Institute of Electrical >>>> and Electronics Engineers (IEEE) 802.11p-2010." >>>> >>>> This forgets that 802.11p is an old name and no longer in use. The >>>> users of this name neglect that IEEE 802.11-2016 is the current >>>> spec, and which covers old 802.11p behaviour with an 'OCB' mode >>>> (Outside the Context of a BSSID). That is the standard that should >>>> be referred to by this FCC Notice and not 802.11p. >>>> >>>> Additionally, I suggest to add the keyword 'IPv6'. I suggest to add >>>> a reference to RFC 8691 titled "Basic Support for IPv6 Networks >>>> Operating Outside the Context of a Basic Service Set over IEEE Std >>>> 802.11" which is publicly available on the web. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> its mailing list >>> its@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> its mailing list >> its@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its
- [ipwave] FCC Moves Plan Forward to Chop Up Vehicl… Russ Housley
- Re: [ipwave] FCC Moves Plan Forward to Chop Up Ve… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] FCC Moves Plan Forward to Chop Up Ve… Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: [ipwave] FCC Moves Plan Forward to Chop Up Ve… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] FCC Moves Plan Forward to Chop Up Ve… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] FCC Moves Plan Forward to Chop Up Ve… Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: [ipwave] FCC Moves Plan Forward to Chop Up Ve… Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: [ipwave] FCC Moves Plan Forward to Chop Up Ve… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] FCC Moves Plan Forward to Chop Up Ve… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] FCC Moves Plan Forward to Chop Up Ve… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] FCC Moves Plan Forward to Chop Up Ve… Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: [ipwave] FCC Moves Plan Forward to Chop Up Ve… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] FCC Moves Plan Forward to Chop Up Ve… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] FCC Moves Plan Forward to Chop Up Ve… Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: [ipwave] FCC Moves Plan Forward to Chop Up Ve… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] FCC Moves Plan Forward to Chop Up Ve… Jérôme Härri
- Re: [ipwave] FCC Moves Plan Forward to Chop Up Ve… Jérôme Härri
- Re: [ipwave] FCC Moves Plan Forward to Chop Up Ve… Alexandre Petrescu
- [ipwave] Commenting on the FCC plan (was: Re: FCC… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] Commenting on the FCC plan (was: Re:… Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: [ipwave] Commenting on the FCC plan Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] Commenting on the FCC plan Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] Commenting on the FCC plan Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: [ipwave] Commenting on the FCC plan Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] Commenting on the FCC plan Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] Commenting on the FCC plan Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] Commenting on the FCC plan Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] Commenting on the FCC plan Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: [ipwave] Commenting on the FCC plan fygsimon@gmail.com
- Re: [ipwave] Commenting on the FCC plan Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] Commenting on the FCC plan Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] Commenting on the FCC plan Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] Commenting on the FCC plan Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] Commenting on the FCC plan Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] Commenting on the FCC plan Chris Shen
- Re: [ipwave] Commenting on the FCC plan, and a no… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] Commenting on the FCC plan, and a no… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] Commenting on the FCC plan - related… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] Commenting on the FCC plan - related… Alexandre Petrescu