Re: [Jmap] the large email (attachment) problem

Bron Gondwana <brong@fastmailteam.com> Mon, 02 August 2021 02:42 UTC

Return-Path: <brong@fastmailteam.com>
X-Original-To: jmap@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: jmap@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB0B03A0C5F for <jmap@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 1 Aug 2021 19:42:56 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.097
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fastmailteam.com header.b=TrWaSsNm; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=Ge8SexEy
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 33ur4aqBOsPg for <jmap@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 1 Aug 2021 19:42:51 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from out1-smtp.messagingengine.com (out1-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E7D493A0C5D for <jmap@ietf.org>; Sun, 1 Aug 2021 19:42:50 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from compute6.internal (compute6.nyi.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 241655C0051 for <jmap@ietf.org>; Sun, 1 Aug 2021 22:42:47 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from imap43 ([10.202.2.93]) by compute6.internal (MEProxy); Sun, 01 Aug 2021 22:42:47 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= fastmailteam.com; h=mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to :references:date:from:to:subject:content-type; s=fm3; bh=sA8O9TE Y+Snd+pAsZvKFAVWaCmkFGhRvLjOIueeSJS4=; b=TrWaSsNm1P2mWGUUT/80rdu 3PBOEN6qjQOYyF3/0g/yeSdFfLtgbiG3gY/6ktjZDUVpPuEu4Sf3mjCrXb4j6c3e YAOEwNCcld+1KtiyOTggUtAmgI6yG295NpGk94H9M3VXRGSJupfgvh/ckPETei/2 qVj4AGALU5wZjKSt1gehsc23Sa0eham+7OTaMbkoQ4Q0cqGqyMoAwKodRA2ww2wi /EINqrXyxEuWWNToFK/c3yahG8knCSmJ/dKAlSfpa/I1X9gc136lgfkBwD7xnqhU n7VDJS3H8kDcspqNVOZDNioR8a69Oz7PmN6ttM3ft7bPEPoMRMQ29EY7X11J0ig= =
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; bh=sA8O9T EY+Snd+pAsZvKFAVWaCmkFGhRvLjOIueeSJS4=; b=Ge8SexEyLpA5csl1DWpqem Z28/IYdl7K6GM7cq9wRvqbo0O2uuSrEKtNepPWnqq/Zs6Lcw7IjCe2X96ynRvil1 mm4X4P9FLbM0Mipap7PeTFCqATmWBAlhlYzPXRSl4yliyw7Av3H9uwiNmKN/yLsR kVY7H3Lsot05OPm+NV3OsC3YWILvd810ZttEfM1fTQDceIPHEuDusy8UCf2iCynL VLb31vHk2Ed5S5E/0F8aSGrz9syQ0sA4E5UYX8RjQ55MDqfJvQ/NtmiFdcuNfRRQ UyUcgXea6s2oohVJRZ7xj8BWcd+xCo8nm+3KnpmaBE5afac9f99229pHMWB/VYEA ==
X-ME-Sender: <xms:plsHYb__DJ87RVP0WqrkPTEAZCP9Npx80WzDX8PXEkzOsL1UW11BrQ> <xme:plsHYXuaWBR95gl-MhTlkWGrONdpslkDaopepQzVkOa327XaZdWOMN1nZsg7gGDp- 7azrSCVcsE>
X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvtddriedugdegfecutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhepofgfggfkjghffffhvffutgesrgdtre erreertdenucfhrhhomhepfdeurhhonhcuifhonhgufigrnhgrfdcuoegsrhhonhhgsehf rghsthhmrghilhhtvggrmhdrtghomheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepvdduueeihefgvd ehueeujeejuedugfeigfevteefleetfeffgfdtjeejgfeuuddvnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfu ihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepsghrohhnghesfhgrshhtmhgrih hlthgvrghmrdgtohhm
X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:plsHYZCgSE-5u4NkktkJdU05LVLdk0uNbvDFnKaf7TbbS9iDGroLIQ> <xmx:plsHYXcp0StBNx1368ybJeCyQwKTjl4Kb7aErH-CAr4aNoFmAi0bNw> <xmx:plsHYQNWRzsAcQDffheNp_SP9OT9Cfdjb0Uroj7W8PV7mYtSk2luYQ> <xmx:p1sHYWYDcLeDu1EjtLNnC0x4rHVny3UfNC7Zyh9koA2Tf9Rk61yoKg>
Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 9798FAC0E77; Sun, 1 Aug 2021 22:42:46 -0400 (EDT)
X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface
User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.5.0-alpha0-1002-g563fbe43fc-fm-ubox-20210727.001-g563fbe43
Mime-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <3b47db73-3d30-4019-ad1c-0b3dfd187305@beta.fastmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <f4f83442-e8c0-42f3-98c6-4c3cb73340c4@dogfood.fastmail.com>
References: <CAJi=jadiwMGvLXG7nK93Ht=TzN-QdmAqyE4Nf7UnGG47f3zSwg@mail.gmail.com> <20210731170047.DE0772563EB0@ary.qy> <YQbPLiMLCVowKgyj@eh> <44b8d21-afd9-6563-bcb0-2ad0d23154a1@taugh.com> <f4f83442-e8c0-42f3-98c6-4c3cb73340c4@dogfood.fastmail.com>
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2021 12:42:26 +1000
From: "Bron Gondwana" <brong@fastmailteam.com>
To: jmap@ietf.org
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=3829239a1b5b4aaea0f4d6a0b29a6f98
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/jmap/rz9gYQT03NjJ5jPGDs84HrK45Z8>
Subject: Re: [Jmap] the large email (attachment) problem
X-BeenThere: jmap@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: JSON Message Access Protocol <jmap.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/jmap>, <mailto:jmap-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/jmap/>
List-Post: <mailto:jmap@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:jmap-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/jmap>, <mailto:jmap-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2021 02:42:57 -0000

On Mon, Aug 2, 2021, at 11:37, Neil Jenkins wrote:
> On Mon, 2 Aug 2021, at 03:43, John R Levine wrote:
>> I agree there is a bootstrap problem.  Some mail programs implemented it 
>> back in the 1990s when people still dialed in to download their mail, then 
>> it went away when we all got permanently online, now we need it again as 
>> the size of bloatware has pulled away from what mail systems do.
> 
> I *think* the bootstrap problem can be solved if most clients support multiple MIME parts correctly (which I think they probably must, because Apple's clients often produce bodies like that). You have something like this:
> 
> multipart/mixed
>     text/html *(The message body)*
>     multipart/alternative
>         text/html *(HTML representation of attachments, just like current G Drive etc.)*
>         message/external-body *(For external attachment aware clients)*

We've collected a bunch of great ideas here.  I think the next sensible step is probably some running code and maybe try to get a group of hackathon people trying things at the next IETF.

I'm particularly interested in anyone who knows any clients which currently implement `message/external-body` at all, so we can check that they handle any changes we make to the format.

Bron.
--
  Bron Gondwana, CEO, Fastmail Pty Ltd
  brong@fastmailteam.com