Re: [jose] PBES2-HS256+A128KW: where do salt and iteration count go?

Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx> Fri, 19 July 2013 16:56 UTC

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Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 12:56:16 -0400
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From: Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx>
To: Mike Jones <Michael.Jones@microsoft.com>
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Cc: "jose@ietf.org" <jose@ietf.org>, "Matt Miller \(mamille2\)" <mamille2@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [jose] PBES2-HS256+A128KW: where do salt and iteration count go?
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If we can spare one more octet, how about "salt" and "iter"?  Otherwise, I
would be fine keeping "s" and "c", or maybe "p2s" and "p2c" to indicate
their use with PBKDF2.


On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Mike Jones <Michael.Jones@microsoft.com>wrote:

> Wearing my editor's hat, it seems like the direction from the working
> group is to make the salt and iteration count be explicit header parameter
> values and to drop the "kty":"PBKDF2".  Any disagreement, or shall I do
> that in the next drafts?
>
> FYI, I was thinking that I'd use "slt" and "itc" for the parameter names.
>
>                                 -- Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matt Miller (mamille2) [mailto:mamille2@cisco.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 6:52 PM
> To: Manger, James H
> Cc: Richard Barnes; Mike Jones; jose@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [jose] PBES2-HS256+A128KW: where do salt and iteration count
> go?
>
> I think the basic concept is fine, but I would rather not add any more
> human-facing fields.  It has too much potential to open the Pandora's box
> that is localization and internationalization.  Hint is something one human
> enters directly (I assume), so said human could communicate it to other
> humans.
>
> I do understand your concerns with "password" (or "pwd" to continue our
> exuberant use of three-letter fields), but that seems like a more general
> issue to discuss.
>
>
> - m&m
>
> Matt Miller < mamille2@cisco.com >
> Cisco Systems, Inc.
>
> On Jul 16, 2013, at 6:08 PM, "Manger, James H" <
> James.H.Manger@team.telstra.com>
>  wrote:
>
> > "kty":"PBKDF2" feels unnecessary, though "kty":"password" would be
> useful. A key set could have an entry like the following:
> >
> > {
> >  "kty":"password",
> > "alg":" PBES2-HS256+A128KW",
> > "c-min":2000,
> > "prompt":"Payment approval PIN",
> > "hint":"last 4 digits of \u03C0"
> > }
> >
> > The entry could also have a "password" field holding the actual password.
> > Mind you, I think mixing public (eg kty, alg) and sensitive (eg hint,
> password) fields side-by-side in a JSON object is a design guaranteed to
> lead to security breaches from poor handling.
> >
> > --
> > James Manger
> >
> > From: Richard Barnes [mailto:rlb@ipv.sx]
> > Sent: Wednesday, 17 July 2013 9:37 AM
> > To: Mike Jones
> > Cc: Matt Miller (mamille2); Manger, James H; jose@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [jose] PBES2-HS256+A128KW: where do salt and iteration
> count go?
> >
> > I was thinking that the "jwk" would be unnecessary.  We could have
> "hint" at the top level, or just use "kid" for that purpose.
> >
> > --Richard
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 7:30 PM, Mike Jones <Michael.Jones@microsoft.com
> <mailto:Michael.Jones@microsoft.com>> wrote:
> > If we move "s" and "c" to being header parameters from the JWK, would we
> still need the JWK with "kty":"PBKDF2"?  All that would be left would be
> the "hint" JWK parameter.
>
>
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