Re: [jose] Should we keep or remove the JOSE JWS and JWE MIME types?
Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx> Thu, 20 June 2013 16:49 UTC
Return-Path: <rlb@ipv.sx>
X-Original-To: jose@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: jose@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0424021F9D64 for <jose@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 20 Jun 2013 09:49:10 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -0.024
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.024 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.199, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_33=0.6, RDNS_NONE=0.1]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YPrIJZpBBABd for <jose@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 20 Jun 2013 09:49:05 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-ob0-x232.google.com (mail-ob0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::232]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C03EB21F9CEB for <jose@ietf.org>; Thu, 20 Jun 2013 09:49:05 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-ob0-f178.google.com with SMTP id fb19so7313156obc.23 for <jose@ietf.org>; Thu, 20 Jun 2013 09:49:05 -0700 (PDT)
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-originating-ip:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=NN8l6I1OKfI94Xfp503esd8NuidcXkx0Y1RVsodEZp8=; b=mM/D4E8gPBCTj7vxvO7vBZra1wY0p64lMSxbZtIVWnyd2SUKmWhnh/pHzvsgEmcihz iZOBCoD5NfSdbpYSBEy9hsdgBgpHkOkMPF6gQ4xPL+fH8FyVppXrehXf6AiCU9MakwRZ Q+4j1rw03uAlWJq+auKwa/uYPE3MrGKjMEC8y8Ja3z3yakF3JjMmljNsLMAJabSwcnQt UlFaOw8oPpe0ctE9PW9CWC9sjGVzFA+zi7Pe5lCWR9XvnQx1LrHijGaSFJXemW8LtF5E itumqTC4mzBGvE9R8ZgNXtqZxzR+HlNsRWtM0R2QyYT3KkI2Xrpra06yP6ULOyirF3Gm bfBA==
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.182.232.225 with SMTP id tr1mr1893264obc.69.1371746945312; Thu, 20 Jun 2013 09:49:05 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.60.26.135 with HTTP; Thu, 20 Jun 2013 09:49:05 -0700 (PDT)
X-Originating-IP: [192.1.51.101]
In-Reply-To: <4E1F6AAD24975D4BA5B1680429673943678794EF@TK5EX14MBXC283.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>
References: <4E1F6AAD24975D4BA5B1680429673943678735D4@TK5EX14MBXC283.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> <CAL02cgQUpbYLatgiaXa8T9oMMi+sA5KxEiocETLTEDXskTtqDQ@mail.gmail.com> <4E1F6AAD24975D4BA5B1680429673943678794EF@TK5EX14MBXC283.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2013 12:49:05 -0400
Message-ID: <CAL02cgSui3q4co4sCRBZCsA_wEgSNUFx8v0jsx+H_2z761VN=Q@mail.gmail.com>
From: Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx>
To: Mike Jones <Michael.Jones@microsoft.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11c3124265ba3504df98b9aa"
X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnD74fLzUdUHsg0ugikeXwnYiol/0/bSsk9jEdKUxIIfI+yGQt5XEL0ztW+jTyh6CAe1kYO
Cc: "jose@ietf.org" <jose@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [jose] Should we keep or remove the JOSE JWS and JWE MIME types?
X-BeenThere: jose@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Javascript Object Signing and Encryption <jose.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/jose>, <mailto:jose-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/jose>
List-Post: <mailto:jose@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:jose-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/jose>, <mailto:jose-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2013 16:49:10 -0000
That algorithm is part of the story, but it's incomplete. What we need is an algorithm that starts with an arbitrary octet string and sorts by JWS/JWE and serialization. An outline of the flow chart: 1. If content parses as valid JSON 1.*. Parse JSON 1.1. Iontains a "ciphertext" field -> JWE + JSON 1.2. Contains a "payload" field -> JWS + JSON 1.3. Else fail 2. Else if content matches the regex "^[a-zA-Z0-9_.-]*$" 2.*. Split on "." 2.1. If 5 components -> JWE + compact 2.2. If 3 components -> JWS + compact 2.3. Else fail 3. Else fail There's also the question of which document this goes in. It would be a natural thing for a combined JWS+JWE document, but we don't have one of those :( On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 11:19 AM, Mike Jones <Michael.Jones@microsoft.com>wrote: > There is a defined algorithm to distinguish between the JWS and JWE > objects in the third paragraph of > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-jose-json-web-encryption-11#section-4 > .**** > > ** ** > > -- Mike**** > > ** ** > > *From:* Richard Barnes [mailto:rlb@ipv.sx] > *Sent:* Thursday, June 20, 2013 8:15 AM > *To:* Mike Jones > *Cc:* jose@ietf.org > > *Subject:* Re: [jose] Should we keep or remove the JOSE JWS and JWE MIME > types?**** > > ** ** > > Multiplexing JWE and JWS under a single JOSE media type only makes sense > if there's a defined algorithm to demux them. So if you want to do this, > you would need to write down the algorithm.**** > > ** ** > > Personally, it seems simpler and clearer to me to just have the four > current types, so that you know which type of object you're dealing with, > and in what serialization, without having to do content sniffing.**** > > ** ** > > On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 9:26 PM, Mike Jones <Michael.Jones@microsoft.com> > wrote:**** > > The JWS and JWE documents currently define these MIME types for the > convenience of applications that may want to use them:**** > > application/jws**** > > application/jws+json**** > > application/jwe**** > > application/jwe+json**** > > **** > > That being said, I’m not aware of any uses of these by applications at > present. Thus, I think that makes it fair game to ask whether we want to > keep them or remove them – in which case, if applications ever needed them, > they could define them later.**** > > **** > > Another dimension of this question for JWS and JWE is that it’s not clear > that the four types application/jws, application/jws+json, application/jwe, > and application/jwe+json are even the right ones. It might be more useful > to have generic application/jose and application/jose+json types, which > could hold either JWS or JWE objects respectively using the compact or JSON > serializations (although I’m not advocating adding them at this time).**** > > **** > > Having different JWS versus JWE MIME types apparently did contribute to at > least Dick’s confusion about the purpose of the “typ” field, so deleting > them could help eliminate this possibility of confusion in the future. > Thus, I’m increasingly convinced we should get rid of the JWS and JWE types > and leave it up to applications to define the types they need, when they > need them.**** > > **** > > Do people have use cases for these four MIME types now or should we leave > them to future specs to define, if needed?**** > > **** > > -- Mike*** > * > > **** > > P.S. For completeness, I’ll add that the JWK document also defines these > MIME types:**** > > application/jwk+json**** > > application/jwk-set+json**** > > **** > > There are already clear use cases for these types, so I’m not advocating > deleting them, but wanted to call that out explicitly. For instance, when > retrieving a JWK Set document referenced by a “jku” header parameter, I > believe that the result should use the application/jwk-set+json type. (In > fact, I’ll add this to the specs, unless there are any objections.) > Likewise, draft-miller-jose-jwe-protected-jwk-02 already uses > application/jwk+json. Both could also be as “cty” values when encrypting > JWKs and JWK Sets, in contexts where that that would be useful.**** > > **** > > > _______________________________________________ > jose mailing list > jose@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/jose**** > > ** ** >
- Re: [jose] Should we keep or remove the JOSE JWS … Manger, James H
- [jose] Should we keep or remove the JOSE JWS and … Mike Jones
- Re: [jose] Should we keep or remove the JOSE JWS … Jim Schaad
- Re: [jose] Should we keep or remove the JOSE JWS … Mike Jones
- Re: [jose] Should we keep or remove the JOSE JWS … Manger, James H
- Re: [jose] Should we keep or remove the JOSE JWS … Richard Barnes
- Re: [jose] Should we keep or remove the JOSE JWS … Mike Jones
- Re: [jose] Should we keep or remove the JOSE JWS … Justin Richer
- Re: [jose] Should we keep or remove the JOSE JWS … Justin Richer
- Re: [jose] Should we keep or remove the JOSE JWS … Richard Barnes
- Re: [jose] Should we keep or remove the JOSE JWS … Matt Miller (mamille2)
- Re: [jose] Should we keep or remove the JOSE JWS … Justin Richer
- Re: [jose] Should we keep or remove the JOSE JWS … Mike Jones
- Re: [jose] Should we keep or remove the JOSE JWS … Mike Jones
- Re: [jose] Should we keep or remove the JOSE JWS … Richard Barnes
- Re: [jose] Should we keep or remove the JOSE JWS … Jim Schaad
- Re: [jose] Should we keep or remove the JOSE JWS … Mike Jones
- Re: [jose] Should we keep or remove the JOSE JWS … Edmund Jay
- Re: [jose] Should we keep or remove the JOSE JWS … Richard Barnes
- Re: [jose] Should we keep or remove the JOSE JWS … Brian Campbell
- Re: [jose] Should we keep or remove the JOSE JWS … Richard Barnes
- Re: [jose] Should we keep or remove the JOSE JWS … John Bradley
- Re: [jose] Should we keep or remove the JOSE JWS … Manger, James H
- Re: [jose] Should we keep or remove the JOSE JWS … Tony Hansen