[jose] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: HPKE and diminishing returns

Ilari Liusvaara <ilariliusvaara@welho.com> Tue, 18 June 2024 15:29 UTC

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Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2024 18:29:49 +0300
From: Ilari Liusvaara <ilariliusvaara@welho.com>
To: JOSE WG <jose@ietf.org>
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Subject: [jose] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: HPKE and diminishing returns
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On Tue, Jun 18, 2024 at 07:08:46PM +0530, tirumal reddy wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Jun 2024 at 17:32, Ilari Liusvaara <ilariliusvaara@welho.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, Jun 17, 2024 at 07:44:04PM +0000, Mike Ounsworth wrote:
> >
> > I estimate that defining the needed algorithms for native KEM support
> > to both JOSE and COSE would take about a page of spec text (not
> > counting IANA considerations).
> >
> 
> Integrating the PQ/T hybrid scheme (ECDH-ES+ML-KEM) into JWE introduces the
> same complexities as HPKE that require modifications to the existing JOSE
> framework. 

Hybrid KEMs do not introduce the same complexities as HPKE:

The source of complexity in HPKE in JOSE is not fitting any existing Key
Managment Mode, and JOSE not being designed for new KMMs.

Whereas native KEMs (including hybrid) are DKA or KAwKW, and thus can
reuse all the JWE/COSE machinery for those modes. And then it is further
possible to reuse KDF, which is substantial part of ECDH-ES machinery
in JWE/COSE.


> In both cases, a new parameter would have to be defined to carry
> the KEM ciphertext. 

New parameter is trivial to add.


> As discussed previously, it is not essential to use the one-shot API
> in HPKE. It is easy to split the HPKE suite information differently
> for key encryption and direct algorithm to align with JWE. For
> example:
> 
> 1. Direct: {alg: HPKE-Base-P256-SHA256, enc: A128GCM} (this could lead to
> mismatches in strength, and hash function, and poor interop)
> 2. Indirect: { alg: HPKE-Base-P256-SHA256-A128KW, enc: A128GCM }

I had designs like this a while back. I think HPKE-Base-P256-SHA256 can
be regarded as Direct Key Agreement. Which would make 
HPKE-Base-P256-SHA256-A128KW Key Agreement with Key Wrapping.

This design is compatible with oneshot API (all designs using existing
modes are).


One small issue with this is that enc gets base64-url encoded twice,
which is ~500 byte penalty with PQC stuff. It is also incompatible with
Auth/AuthPSK stuff (but PQC stuff is incompatible with that anyway).




-Ilari