Re: [Json] -0.0

Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org> Mon, 30 September 2013 00:38 UTC

Return-Path: <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org>
X-Original-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 078A421F9E40 for <json@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 17:38:27 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -102.555
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.555 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.044, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HmB0gXq2aYOd for <json@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 17:38:26 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from hoffman.proper.com (IPv6.Hoffman.Proper.COM [IPv6:2605:8e00:100:41::81]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B0CC21F9E37 for <json@ietf.org>; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 17:38:26 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [10.20.30.90] (50-1-98-185.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net [50.1.98.185]) (authenticated bits=0) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r8U0cP4F066315 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for <json@ietf.org>; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 17:38:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from paul.hoffman@vpnc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: hoffman.proper.com: Host 50-1-98-185.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net [50.1.98.185] claimed to be [10.20.30.90]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.6 \(1510\))
From: Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org>
In-Reply-To: <20130930002831.GJ27126@mercury.ccil.org>
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 17:38:24 -0700
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <590DB34F-489F-4FBD-8937-7CA14382F366@vpnc.org>
References: <CAHBU6iu=LbwcZgEPzKgurR7s+jCUeVMEagq1knzOBWUky9SLoA@mail.gmail.com> <52454988.5030706@it.aoyama.ac.jp> <20130927214137.GC24460@mercury.ccil.org> <BF7E36B9C495A6468E8EC573603ED9411EF1E1E5@xmb-aln-x11.cisco.com> <CAChr6SxfAv+yjEzsn2R=S79MviRN+bYak=8Nnnkw9hfs3p1zxw@mail.gmail.com> <CAChr6SxYSzXGf5hrVNvmdmpHU2R+cKSH+37NhTc--6iDpfXG3g@mail.gmail.com> <9D959999-63A2-46EF-8C14-C48F586D9DA4@tzi.org> <CAChr6Sz4Hg--YrWnxXOxJJmbx=AmjDoEZXxs7HeTV58w5VSRDg@mail.gmail.com> <25C6CA6F-76F0-42DE-8845-850B8B69F1A6@tzi.org> <CAHBU6is6w6WpsYOeOP=yMREAhz90+J4OPC6uVB+nXca2aJMmpg@mail.gmail.com> <20130930002831.GJ27126@mercury.ccil.org>
To: JSON WG <json@ietf.org>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1510)
Subject: Re: [Json] -0.0
X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" <json.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/json>, <mailto:json-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/json>
List-Post: <mailto:json@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:json-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/json>, <mailto:json-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 00:38:27 -0000

<no hat>

The additions that we are making about interoperability are about things that a significant number of JSON users might expect. The likely-forthcoming "implementation advice" document can take care of telling implementers of JSON encoders and parsers what they should consider.

On Sep 29, 2013, at 5:28 PM, John Cowan <cowan@mercury.ccil.org> wrote:

> Tim Bray scripsit:
> 
>> Yeah, but my opinion is shifting here... it's starting to feel to me
>> like there's nothing remotely JSON-specific about the problems around
>> -0.
> 
> There isn't, but JSON is what we are working on today.  "It is not
> incumbent upon you to complete the work, but neither are you at liberty
> to desist from it." (R. Tarfon, _Pirke Avot_ 2:21, ca. 100 C.E.)

"Don't boil the ocean." (Lots of people, recently.)

> 
>> - Remove "are represented without "frac" or "exp" parts (for example
>> as 3 not 3.0)"
> 
> +1

+1

>> - Lose the whole paragraph beginning "Numbers which represent zero
>> without a sign...
> 
> -1
> 
>> Less is more. Is anyone passionate about keeping either?
> 
> I do feel that we should warn about negative zero.  Unlike XML, JSON
> claims to transmit numbers, and we should warn about the limits of that
> capability.

Number geeks^wspecialsts might expect certain things about -0, but the vast majority of normal JSON users won't. I think it is fine to remove the paragraph and assume that a more in-depth discussion will happen in the companion document.

--Paul Hoffman