Re: [Json] -0.0
Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org> Mon, 30 September 2013 00:38 UTC
Return-Path: <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org>
X-Original-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 078A421F9E40 for <json@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 17:38:27 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -102.555
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.555 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.044, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HmB0gXq2aYOd for <json@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 17:38:26 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from hoffman.proper.com (IPv6.Hoffman.Proper.COM [IPv6:2605:8e00:100:41::81]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B0CC21F9E37 for <json@ietf.org>; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 17:38:26 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [10.20.30.90] (50-1-98-185.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net [50.1.98.185]) (authenticated bits=0) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r8U0cP4F066315 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for <json@ietf.org>; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 17:38:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from paul.hoffman@vpnc.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: hoffman.proper.com: Host 50-1-98-185.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net [50.1.98.185] claimed to be [10.20.30.90]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.6 \(1510\))
From: Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org>
In-Reply-To: <20130930002831.GJ27126@mercury.ccil.org>
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 17:38:24 -0700
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <590DB34F-489F-4FBD-8937-7CA14382F366@vpnc.org>
References: <CAHBU6iu=LbwcZgEPzKgurR7s+jCUeVMEagq1knzOBWUky9SLoA@mail.gmail.com> <52454988.5030706@it.aoyama.ac.jp> <20130927214137.GC24460@mercury.ccil.org> <BF7E36B9C495A6468E8EC573603ED9411EF1E1E5@xmb-aln-x11.cisco.com> <CAChr6SxfAv+yjEzsn2R=S79MviRN+bYak=8Nnnkw9hfs3p1zxw@mail.gmail.com> <CAChr6SxYSzXGf5hrVNvmdmpHU2R+cKSH+37NhTc--6iDpfXG3g@mail.gmail.com> <9D959999-63A2-46EF-8C14-C48F586D9DA4@tzi.org> <CAChr6Sz4Hg--YrWnxXOxJJmbx=AmjDoEZXxs7HeTV58w5VSRDg@mail.gmail.com> <25C6CA6F-76F0-42DE-8845-850B8B69F1A6@tzi.org> <CAHBU6is6w6WpsYOeOP=yMREAhz90+J4OPC6uVB+nXca2aJMmpg@mail.gmail.com> <20130930002831.GJ27126@mercury.ccil.org>
To: JSON WG <json@ietf.org>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1510)
Subject: Re: [Json] -0.0
X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" <json.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/json>, <mailto:json-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/json>
List-Post: <mailto:json@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:json-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/json>, <mailto:json-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 00:38:27 -0000
<no hat> The additions that we are making about interoperability are about things that a significant number of JSON users might expect. The likely-forthcoming "implementation advice" document can take care of telling implementers of JSON encoders and parsers what they should consider. On Sep 29, 2013, at 5:28 PM, John Cowan <cowan@mercury.ccil.org> wrote: > Tim Bray scripsit: > >> Yeah, but my opinion is shifting here... it's starting to feel to me >> like there's nothing remotely JSON-specific about the problems around >> -0. > > There isn't, but JSON is what we are working on today. "It is not > incumbent upon you to complete the work, but neither are you at liberty > to desist from it." (R. Tarfon, _Pirke Avot_ 2:21, ca. 100 C.E.) "Don't boil the ocean." (Lots of people, recently.) > >> - Remove "are represented without "frac" or "exp" parts (for example >> as 3 not 3.0)" > > +1 +1 >> - Lose the whole paragraph beginning "Numbers which represent zero >> without a sign... > > -1 > >> Less is more. Is anyone passionate about keeping either? > > I do feel that we should warn about negative zero. Unlike XML, JSON > claims to transmit numbers, and we should warn about the limits of that > capability. Number geeks^wspecialsts might expect certain things about -0, but the vast majority of normal JSON users won't. I think it is fine to remove the paragraph and assume that a more in-depth discussion will happen in the companion document. --Paul Hoffman
- [Json] Working Group Last Call of draft-ietf-json… Matt Miller (mamille2)
- Re: [Json] Working Group Last Call of draft-ietf-… R S
- Re: [Json] Working Group Last Call of draft-ietf-… Tim Bray
- [Json] Differences between RFC 4627 or the curren… Paul Hoffman
- [Json] "suffer fatal runtime exceptions" Paul Hoffman
- [Json] -0.0 Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Json] -0.0 R S
- Re: [Json] Differences between RFC 4627 or the cu… Tim Bray
- Re: [Json] -0.0 Tim Bray
- Re: [Json] "suffer fatal runtime exceptions" R S
- Re: [Json] Differences between RFC 4627 or the cu… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Json] "suffer fatal runtime exceptions" Tim Bray
- Re: [Json] -0.0 R S
- Re: [Json] -0.0 Tim Bray
- Re: [Json] -0.0 John Cowan
- Re: [Json] -0.0 John Cowan
- Re: [Json] -0.0 R S
- Re: [Json] Differences between RFC 4627 or the cu… R S
- Re: [Json] Working Group Last Call of draft-ietf-… Mark Nottingham
- Re: [Json] Working Group Last Call of draft-ietf-… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [Json] Working Group Last Call of draft-ietf-… Tim Bray
- Re: [Json] Differences between RFC 4627 or the cu… Paul Hoffman
- [Json] Authorship Paul Hoffman
- [Json] Obsoletes RFC 4627 Paul Hoffman
- [Json] Section 1.3, "Changes from RFC 4627" Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Json] Differences between RFC 4627 or the cu… R S
- Re: [Json] Authorship R S
- Re: [Json] Differences between RFC 4627 or the cu… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Json] Differences between RFC 4627 or the cu… R S
- Re: [Json] Differences between RFC 4627 or the cu… John Cowan
- Re: [Json] Authorship Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [Json] Authorship John Cowan
- Re: [Json] Obsoletes RFC 4627 Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [Json] Obsoletes RFC 4627 Tim Bray
- Re: [Json] Obsoletes RFC 4627 Eliot Lear
- Re: [Json] Authorship Eliot Lear
- Re: [Json] [authorship] (was: Working Group Last … Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [Json] -0.0 Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [Json] Section 1.3, "Changes from RFC 4627" Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [Json] Obsoletes RFC 4627 Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [Json] -0.0 Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [Json] -0.0 Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Json] -0.0 Bjoern Hoehrmann
- Re: [Json] Authorship Pete Resnick
- Re: [Json] Differences between RFC 4627 or the cu… Tony Hansen
- Re: [Json] ECMA-262 normative? Tim Bray
- Re: [Json] Differences between RFC 4627 or the cu… R S
- Re: [Json] Differences between RFC 4627 or the cu… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Json] Authorship Bjoern Hoehrmann
- Re: [Json] -0.0 John Cowan
- Re: [Json] -0.0 Matt Miller (mamille2)
- Re: [Json] -0.0 R S
- Re: [Json] -0.0 R S
- Re: [Json] -0.0 R S
- Re: [Json] -0.0 John Cowan
- Re: [Json] -0.0 R S
- Re: [Json] -0.0 R S
- Re: [Json] -0.0 Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Json] -0.0 R S
- Re: [Json] -0.0 Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Json] -0.0 Tim Bray
- Re: [Json] -0.0 Peter Patel-Schneider
- Re: [Json] -0.0 John Cowan
- Re: [Json] -0.0 Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Json] -0.0 R S
- Re: [Json] -0.0 John Cowan
- Re: [Json] -0.0 Carsten Bormann
- [Json] Change Control (was: Re: Authorship) Martin J. Dürst
- [Json] Indentation (was: Re: Change Control) Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [Json] Indentation (was: Re: Change Control) Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Json] Indentation (was: Re: Change Control) Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Json] Change Control (was: Re: Authorship) Jorge Chamorro
- Re: [Json] Differences between RFC 4627 or the cu… Tony Hansen
- [Json] ECMA-262 normative? Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Json] ECMA-262 normative? John Cowan
- Re: [Json] ECMA-262 normative? Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Json] ECMA-262 normative? Eliot Lear
- [Json] Change control for the MIME media type Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Json] ECMA-262 normative? R S
- Re: [Json] Differences between RFC 4627 or the cu… R S
- Re: [Json] Differences between RFC 4627 or the cu… Tony Hansen
- Re: [Json] ECMA-262 normative? Tim Bray
- Re: [Json] ECMA-262 normative? Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Json] Differences between RFC 4627 or the cu… Tim Bray
- Re: [Json] Differences between RFC 4627 or the cu… R S
- Re: [Json] Differences between RFC 4627 or the cu… Bjoern Hoehrmann
- Re: [Json] Differences between RFC 4627 or the cu… Tim Bray
- Re: [Json] Differences between RFC 4627 or the cu… Tim Bray
- Re: [Json] Differences between RFC 4627 or the cu… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Json] Differences between RFC 4627 or the cu… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Json] Differences between RFC 4627 or the cu… Tony Hansen
- Re: [Json] Differences between RFC 4627 or the cu… R S
- Re: [Json] Differences between RFC 4627 or the cu… R S
- Re: [Json] section 1 paragraph 2 on what JSON can… Tony Hansen
- Re: [Json] Differences between RFC 4627 or the cu… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Json] section 1 paragraph 2 on what JSON can… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Json] Differences between RFC 4627 or the cu… Jorge Chamorro
- Re: [Json] section 1 paragraph 2 on what JSON can… Tim Bray
- Re: [Json] Differences between RFC 4627 or the cu… Tony Hansen
- Re: [Json] section 1 paragraph 2 on what JSON can… John Cowan
- Re: [Json] Differences between RFC 4627 or the cu… John Cowan
- Re: [Json] Differences between RFC 4627 or the cu… Tim Bray
- Re: [Json] section 1 paragraph 2 on what JSON can… Tony Hansen
- Re: [Json] Differences between RFC 4627 or the cu… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Json] Differences between RFC 4627 or the cu… John Cowan
- Re: [Json] Differences between RFC 4627 or the cu… Jorge Chamorro
- Re: [Json] Differences between RFC 4627 or the cu… Jorge Chamorro
- Re: [Json] section 1 paragraph 2 on what JSON can… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Json] Differences between RFC 4627 or the cu… Tim Bray
- Re: [Json] Differences between RFC 4627 or the cu… Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [Json] section 1 paragraph 2 on what JSON can… Manger, James H
- Re: [Json] Differences between RFC 4627 or the cu… R S
- Re: [Json] Differences between RFC 4627 or the cu… Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [Json] section 1 paragraph 2 on what JSON can… John Cowan
- Re: [Json] section 1 paragraph 2 on what JSON can… Manger, James H