Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. formalisms discussion forward
"Pete Cordell" <petejson@codalogic.com> Thu, 20 February 2014 13:02 UTC
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From: Pete Cordell <petejson@codalogic.com>
To: Cyrus Daboo <cyrus@daboo.name>, Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>, JSON WG <json@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. formalisms discussion forward
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----- Original Message From: "Cyrus Daboo" > Please take a look at Andrew Newton's spec > (<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-newton-json-content-rules/>). Thanks Cyrus. It certainly looks like another option. I would suggest that the authors could look at the following to improve it: - It doesn't seem to have much in the way of supporting modularity. It would be attractive if a schema could pull in and use definitions defined in other documents. Many IETF protocols consist of suites of components and support for that would be handy. - It doesn't seem to support third-party extensions to a core protocol. For example, HTTP and SIP are defined in a core RFC but there are then a number of additional RFC that define extensions. Support for expressing how a new extension can extend an existing external extension would be good. (Just about every schema language I've seen fails miserably at this!) - The plethora of data types are a problem for schema languages. I've come to the conclusion that the best option is to declare a "microformat" pseudo-type that basically says this is a string encoded in a particular way. The 'particular way' can then be defined in narrative form as required (80-20 etc). This avoids having to define the kitchen sink of data types up front. e.g.: struct Asset { GPSLocation location; }; microformat GPSLocation; // A GPSLocation is a pair of comma separated floating-point // numbers representing longitude and latitude. // e.g. "location": "0.0,51.5" - Does it allow multiple roots to be defined? Many protocols have request/response type pairs so it's nice to define a protocol that has the form: "request": {...} and "response": {...} Pete Cordell Codalogic Ltd C++ tools for C++ programmers, http://codalogic.com Read & write XML in C++, http://www.xml2cpp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cyrus Daboo" <cyrus@daboo.name> To: "Pete Cordell" <petejson@codalogic.com>; "Carsten Bormann" <cabo@tzi.org>; "JSON WG" <json@ietf.org> Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 2:05 AM Subject: Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. formalisms discussion forward > Hi Pete, > > --On February 19, 2014 at 10:29:32 PM +0000 Pete Cordell > <petejson@codalogic.com> wrote: > >> I thought I'd throw down n gauntlet as a baseline for something to be >> beat. So I started with something C like, and stole stuff from other >> languages and came up with the following >> > > Please take a look at Andrew Newton's spec > (<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-newton-json-content-rules/>). > > I have used that in two specs of my own: > > <http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-douglass-timezone-service-10#section-7> > <http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-daboo-aggregated-service-discovery-03.txt> > Appendix B > > I found it to be easy to use and provide the necessary "commentary" for > the JSON format chosen for those specs. I know several others who have > implemented the timezone service protocol and we had no issues with > interoperability related to the JSON format (beyond some poor text > descriptions on my part). > > As Andrew noted earlier, his spec could probably be simplified some more - > but we certainly don't need anything more complicated than what is there > now. > > -- > Cyrus Daboo >
- [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. formalism… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… Nico Williams
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. formalism… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… Tim Bray
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… Tim Bray
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… Nico Williams
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… John Cowan
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… Tim Bray
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… Nico Williams
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… Tim Bray
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… John Cowan
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… Tim Bray
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… Nico Williams
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… Nico Williams
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… Pete Cordell
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… Pete Cordell
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… Tim Bray
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… Nico Williams
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… Tatu Saloranta
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… John Cowan
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… John Cowan
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… Barry Leiba
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… Mark Nottingham
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… Andrew Newton
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… Pete Cordell
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… Barry Leiba
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… Bjoern Hoehrmann
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… John Cowan
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… Nico Williams
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… Nico Williams
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… Manger, James
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… Tim Bray
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… Nico Williams
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… Mark Nottingham
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… Nico Williams
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… Cyrus Daboo
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… Andrew Newton
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… Pete Cordell
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… John Cowan
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… Pete Cordell
- Re: [Json] Nudging the English-language vs. forma… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- [Json] Schema Requirements (Was: Re: Nudging the … Pete Cordell
- Re: [Json] Schema Requirements (Was: Re: Nudging … Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Json] Schema Requirements (Was: Re: Nudging … Nico Williams
- Re: [Json] Schema Requirements (Was: Re: Nudging … Nico Williams
- Re: [Json] Schema Requirements (Was: Re: Nudging … Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Json] Schema Requirements (Was: Re: Nudging … Nico Williams
- Re: [Json] Schema Requirements (Was: Re: Nudging … Pete Cordell
- Re: [Json] Schema Requirements (Was: Re: Nudging … Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Json] Schema Requirements (Was: Re: Nudging … Pete Cordell
- Re: [Json] Schema Requirements (Was: Re: Nudging … Nico Williams
- Re: [Json] Schema Requirements (Was: Re: Nudging … Pete Cordell
- Re: [Json] Schema Requirements (Was: Re: Nudging … Nico Williams
- Re: [Json] Schema Requirements (Was: Re: Nudging … Pete Cordell