IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [Json] Consensus on JSON-text (WAS: JSON: remove gap between Ecma-404 and IETF draft)

Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com> Tue, 03 December 2013 02:23 UTC

Return-Path: <nico@cryptonector.com>
X-Original-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 814BF1ACCE7; Mon, 2 Dec 2013 18:23:12 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.378
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.378 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lzpWijo7p_JG; Mon, 2 Dec 2013 18:23:11 -0800 (PST)
Received: from homiemail-a84.g.dreamhost.com (caiajhbdccac.dreamhost.com [208.97.132.202]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D5371ACCE3; Mon, 2 Dec 2013 18:23:11 -0800 (PST)
Received: from homiemail-a84.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a84.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 861FD1DE070; Mon, 2 Dec 2013 18:23:08 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=cryptonector.com; h= mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from :to:cc:content-type; s=cryptonector.com; bh=nx5wHek0FnxmcjTZ9eH7 42+2Wek=; b=SHCeuQRg9HHS8lYn+cGaB9h+BozGhkewfavP/TLXS+4wjBS+HAKm hlr647PFoizylSqtr8BKb+fXimAE5peaOdleqFh+O2TdMaphEyqsgczHpgLuW1z/ nVbnx3dLolsj+KWZf+13Qq0gQhrfaSMS7kaQCqi78i5BRks/Q7JW+78=
Received: from mail-we0-f174.google.com (mail-we0-f174.google.com [74.125.82.174]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: nico@cryptonector.com) by homiemail-a84.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D8A111DE058; Mon, 2 Dec 2013 18:23:07 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-we0-f174.google.com with SMTP id q58so12751712wes.19 for <multiple recipients>; Mon, 02 Dec 2013 18:23:06 -0800 (PST)
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=352/TheAwu0zCi1fYRlrDJ3ayBqSrVT7vgmMnMjZS3c=; b=C3rZIwEpMlDcH/KLrjAdn3t9P794PWZnw/g5tvO8Cjez4rJfkIlf1i/0Nq27wLhdnt ZbN19BHesMPaz4w+/+Wq4hPaQMRziC2CKRCWZguVMdy/Jx0/FZPY9CMnLjYtenGZrxXD FsC1CS2WR69g0kDPtijF2LOyKo14ZSd/1EN/KCHkmTFnnwaALm/mz1BUy1jmv6AUfSxn oVN6kR1KnaEWoGyFPVPb2MvkeK5c+iFLS0+UsM5DYpbhAbN1Sk733qpXO1uu1O0LKcm5 j4Kez4/01nr9XFwBSDBLDoAFyvoTfYUcEIxUSppC7X6xGqHaCeeq2tDht7yoAPlTk+yc /fyw==
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.180.187.101 with SMTP id fr5mr303182wic.42.1386037386187; Mon, 02 Dec 2013 18:23:06 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.216.151.136 with HTTP; Mon, 2 Dec 2013 18:23:06 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <20131203002450.GH8672@mercury.ccil.org>
References: <CADnb78h8AjPcQLOCwNm0Pt3pObh6uFV5+zy0c_YU6B-u4MtY1Q@mail.gmail.com> <AA45B3C6-1DC5-4B1E-8045-C9FE76022584@vpnc.org> <C93F89AD-81D2-4489-ADC4-AB05A5B10883@cisco.com> <CAHBU6itgE9=WP+c0oXt1W647b1zz+N6+4ZqRa63Ve91TUsGzTA@mail.gmail.com> <CANr5HFVhG5SNhW4yJxDicvFman94FaNi8UZHhcpQbH6AG6pfQg@mail.gmail.com> <CAHBU6it-yHeHVY+3EFvPd0pVu4uLLdH3Gmz53LL4DZWJSyyUuQ@mail.gmail.com> <6C28E0DD-5E45-42DB-A915-795EE0A489CC@w3.org> <CAMm+Lwh-VNdtTRj6=keGMWbANDqQKbj6CODtwe1rquU8H7+32w@mail.gmail.com> <20131202224802.GY21240@localhost> <20131203002450.GH8672@mercury.ccil.org>
Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2013 20:23:06 -0600
Message-ID: <CAK3OfOjYt0jV24YY1PvG_sMEvZjZAiHQ7SPLJ_0RFhHmO8nV7g@mail.gmail.com>
From: Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com>
To: John Cowan <cowan@mercury.ccil.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 02 Dec 2013 19:52:08 -0800
Cc: Tim Berners-Lee <timbl@w3.org>, IETF Discussion <ietf@ietf.org>, JSON WG <json@ietf.org>, Alex Russell <slightlyoff@google.com>, Tim Bray <tbray@textuality.com>, "Matt Miller (mamille2)" <mamille2@cisco.com>, Phillip Hallam-Baker <hallam@gmail.com>, "www-tag@w3.org" <www-tag@w3.org>, es-discuss <es-discuss@mozilla.org>
Subject: Re: [Json] Consensus on JSON-text (WAS: JSON: remove gap between Ecma-404 and IETF draft)
X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" <json.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/json>, <mailto:json-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/json/>
List-Post: <mailto:json@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:json-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/json>, <mailto:json-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2013 02:23:12 -0000

On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 6:24 PM, John Cowan <cowan@mercury.ccil.org> wrote:
> Nico Williams scripsit:
>
>> "datetime" and such are interpretations of more basic datatypes,
>
> An interval of time is not a string, any more than a number is a string.
> They are both *representable* by strings, but everything is: you can
> represent a human being or the planet Saturn by a string.

Interval definitely sounds like a tuple, but, sure, JSON texts can
represent arrays as text...

>> they belong in pre-agreed/documented schema rather than on the wire.
>
> The decision to do so is arbitrary.

Of course it is.  How much to describe on the wire vs. schema is... a
continuum.  Given the JSON we have though... it's best to deal with
datetime via schema.

My point was and still is that the one thing that's sorely missing is
an indefinite-length unescaped binary data encoding, and which is not
nearly as complex, notionally, IMO, as other types.

Nico
--

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email