Re: [Json] FYI ECMA, W3C, IETF coordination on JSON

Jorge Chamorro <> Tue, 08 October 2013 20:06 UTC

Return-Path: <>
Received: from localhost (localhost []) by (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4D3F21F9FC3 for <>; Tue, 8 Oct 2013 13:06:53 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -3.599
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1]
Received: from ([]) by localhost ( []) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id T9Pp0ozWFOKY for <>; Tue, 8 Oct 2013 13:06:40 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ( []) by (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7787421F93E4 for <>; Tue, 8 Oct 2013 13:06:25 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by with SMTP id hm2so7207412wib.4 for <>; Tue, 08 Oct 2013 13:06:25 -0700 (PDT)
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:mime-version:content-type:from :in-reply-to:date:cc:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references :to; bh=2j2pgTH8uv0P9CJ2jEZ25luil/qcGDICYLatXYnR37s=; b=I2pcjf/+VsfGlcmANyXfMmxEyOAuiNaH1BfkkPKhMVZxlv0EWRUxxG26bq14X7kjDw KDIBQxMCDqqK0jAXHCPhkt9xD+Bv1hAz1uU2q9TK3g6WrrlML7bWTg8bWDfzKnv2zEwF 4n40NKRMFtXKzK+J4TGKdI5LU7lx0jaaruQyrToutJubyzBA8NDzDQ4GDmryvxRlon0H YknuiQi1c+amODcH2bSmp4ihFVKbJBk2TJnCNEJo3oqU0AkTB3d6Mdx1cP+rR6YW2ArP 8Lbah33jGWhBk1x6kx5do6u68283wmRZmR/9PbGUoyfK9yoayRvqIRXcbknffzA08Lpw JPhg==
X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlgdUMFuBzt1ctAS64K67dMTp3+VZH/eo93RJXq0HffIsUAj0uhCloZp4GmIgd1/AeSyB/H
X-Received: by with SMTP id lp20mr25088115wic.48.1381262785034; Tue, 08 Oct 2013 13:06:25 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [] ( []) by with ESMTPSA id d11sm8340970wic.4.1969. (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 08 Oct 2013 13:06:24 -0700 (PDT)
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1085)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
From: Jorge Chamorro <>
In-Reply-To: <>
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2013 22:06:21 +0200
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <>
References: <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <>
To: "Peter F. Patel-Schneider" <>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1085)
Cc: Allen Wirfs-Brock <>, John Cowan <>, Larry Masinter <>, Tim Bray <>, JSON WG <>, "" <>
Subject: Re: [Json] FYI ECMA, W3C, IETF coordination on JSON
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" <>
List-Unsubscribe: <>, <>
List-Archive: <>
List-Post: <>
List-Help: <>
List-Subscribe: <>, <>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2013 20:06:56 -0000

On 08/10/2013, at 21:14, Peter F. Patel-Schneider wrote
> On 10/08/2013 11:43 AM, Jorge Chamorro wrote:
>> On 08/10/2013, at 20:26, Peter F. Patel-Schneider wrote:
>>> The paragraph on numbers, see below, seems rather dangerous, as well as being incorrect.
>> Is it? Why?
> Well, for starters, interchanging non-integers can lead to loss of precision, which can be dangerous.  Further, interchanging numbers without some notion of the limits of the receiver is also dangerous.
> Second, JSON does not only use sequences of digits to represent numbers, and there are many JSON numbers that cannot be represented as a sequence of base-ten digits.
> Third, there are many numbers that humans interchange that cannot be represented as finite sequences of digits, even if you allow also a decimal point and a negative sign, for example 1/7, pi, and the square root of two.  (Perhaps the wording in the introduction is meant to allow infinite sequences of digits, but then using JSON for interchange is a bit difficult.)  My understanding is that limiting the representation of numbers to something like the JSON syntax is more of a computer thing than a human thing.

Ok, look: he's done -and very well- what he said should be done:

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Douglas Crockford <>
> Date: 13 de junio de 2013 17:50:33 GMT+02:00
> To: "" <>
> Subject: [Json] Two Documents
> content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed"
> The confusion and controversy around this work is due to a mistake that I
> made in RFC 4627. The purpose of the RFC, which is clearly indicated
> in the title, was to establish a MIME type. I also gave a description of
> the JSON Data Interchange Format. My mistake was in conflating the two,
> putting details about the MIME type into the description of the format. My
> intention was to add clarity. That obviously was not the result.
> JSON is just a format. It describes a syntax of brackets and commas that
> is useful in many contexts, profiles, and applications. JSON is agnostic
> about all of that stuff. JSON shouldn't even care about character encoding.
> Its only dependence on Unicode in the hex numbers used in the \u notation.
> JSON can be encoded in ASCII or EBCDIC or even Hollerith codes. JSON can
> be used in contexts where there is no character encoding at all, such as
> paper documents and marble monuments.
> There are uses of JSON however in which such choices matter, and where
> behavior needs to be attached to or derived from the syntax. That is
> important stuff, and it belongs in different documents. Such documents
> will place necessary restrictions on JSON's potential. No such document
> can fit all applications, which causes much of the controversy we've seen
> here. One size cannot fit all. JSON the format is universal. But real
> applications require reasonable restrictions.
> So we should be working on at least two documents, which is something we have
> discussed earlier. The first is The JSON Data Interchange Format, which is
> a simple grammar. The second is a best practices document, which recommends
> specific conventions of usage.
> _______________________________________________
> json mailing list

ECMA-404 is simple, complete, easy to read and extremely clear: excellent.

( Jorge )();