Re: [Json] Proposed Wording for New WG Charter
Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com> Thu, 20 March 2014 15:16 UTC
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Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 10:15:47 -0500
From: Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com>
To: "\"Martin J. Dürst\"" <duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp>
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Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/json/kum3SIYeaAtZGvVXJTqvXdz9Ee0
Cc: IETF JSON WG <json@ietf.org>, Matt Miller <mamille2@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [Json] Proposed Wording for New WG Charter
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On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 01:01:28PM +0900, "Martin J. Dürst" wrote: > >The WG will work on a format for a streamable sequence of JSON texts. > >The work will start from draft-williams-json-text-sequence-00. > > There have been various discussions about such an idea, and various > details of it, on the WG list. However, as far as I'm aware, the > question of whether this should be part of the WG's work wasn't > brought up, and has not been discussed. I'm therefore quite > surprised to see this here, and request that it be retracted and if > necessary discussed separately before being included in a charter > proposal. I'm somewhat surprised as well. I do think the call by the chairs that there was consensus for it is plausible, but it's true that it was never stated that it was being considered as a work item, and that might actually change the consensus. > As to substance, I strongly oppose the addition of this work item to > the WG charter. In my understanding, the need for such a format is > marginal at best (*), and putting it on the WG charter would tie up > significant resources that can be better used elsewhere. > Standardizing such a format would also cause needless confusion in > the JSON ecosystem. (#) > > (*) In particular in open exchange on the Internet. That may be. I don't have apps to point to that use this now over -say- HTTP. I do have apps that use JSON sequences internally and as file formats. I would like to be able to use JSON sequences over HTTP, but wishing ain't getting and for all I know it may never happen. OTOH, I think a number of people have agreed that JSON sequences have useful properties, so there appears to be enough interest. > (#) I can already hear questions and discussions such as "Should we > use an array or a sequence here?" and "What about sequences inside > arrays?" and so on. Re (#): Sequences are of JSON texts, and JSON texts are well-defined enough that it's clear that sequences cannot appear in JSON texts. Full stop. The idea is twofold: to obtain a happy middle between streaming and non-streaming parsing of sequences (arrays if you prefer) of values, and to not require a closing array/sequence token (']') because it may never arrive (e.g., in the case of a logfile). In particular, the ability to construct a streaming JSON sequence parsers out of off-the-shelf non-streaming (but incremental[*]) JSON text parsers is quite convenient given that a) all-streaming-all-the- time text parsing is inconvenient, b) non-streaming parsers abound. Nico [*] Non-streaming parsers that require a fully-formed text be provided as input (e.g., json.loads()), cannot be efficiently used to parse sequences without the encoder having made it easier for the sequence parser to identify the ends of the texts.
- [Json] Proposed Wording for New WG Charter Matt Miller
- Re: [Json] Proposed Wording for New WG Charter Julian Reschke
- Re: [Json] Proposed Wording for New WG Charter Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Json] Proposed Wording for New WG Charter Julian Reschke
- Re: [Json] Proposed Wording for New WG Charter Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Json] Proposed Wording for New WG Charter Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Json] Proposed Wording for New WG Charter Julian Reschke
- Re: [Json] Proposed Wording for New WG Charter Bjoern Hoehrmann
- Re: [Json] Proposed Wording for New WG Charter Tim Bray
- Re: [Json] Proposed Wording for New WG Charter Julian Reschke
- Re: [Json] Proposed Wording for New WG Charter Matt Miller
- Re: [Json] Proposed Wording for New WG Charter Tim Bray
- Re: [Json] Proposed Wording for New WG Charter Julian Reschke
- Re: [Json] Proposed Wording for New WG Charter Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Json] Proposed Wording for New WG Charter Julian Reschke
- Re: [Json] Proposed Wording for New WG Charter Stefan Drees
- Re: [Json] Proposed Wording for New WG Charter Matt Miller
- Re: [Json] Proposed Wording for New WG Charter Matt Miller
- Re: [Json] Proposed Wording for New WG Charter Nico Williams
- Re: [Json] Proposed Wording for New WG Charter Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [Json] Proposed Wording for New WG Charter Nico Williams