Re: [Json] BOMs
"Martin J. Dürst" <duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp> Wed, 20 November 2013 06:19 UTC
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Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 15:18:45 +0900
From: "\"Martin J. Dürst\"" <duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp>
Organization: Aoyama Gakuin University
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To: "Henry S. Thompson" <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk>
References: <AA45B3C6-1DC5-4B1E-8045-C9FE76022584@vpnc.org> <CEA92854.2CC53%jhildebr@cisco.com> <20131113224737.GI31823@mercury.ccil.org> <f5bob5n71y7.fsf@troutbeck.inf.ed.ac.uk> <5284B095.4070004@it.aoyama.ac.jp> <C37B2FE59C164DBCA982AC81A56A09AA@codalogic> <f5bk3g6ufqy.fsf@troutbeck.inf.ed.ac.uk> <5289F974.9020709@it.aoyama.ac.jp> <020401cee50f$a2cdf5c0$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> <528B46EA.4040503@it.aoyama.ac.jp> <43255615-2FC9-4726-99FD-1B13D6B1F033@wirfs-brock.com> <f5br4ackyqm.fsf@troutbeck.inf.ed.ac.uk>
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Cc: Allen Wirfs-Brock <allen@wirfs-brock.com>, John Cowan <cowan@mercury.ccil.org>, IETF Discussion <ietf@ietf.org>, Pete Cordell <petejson@codalogic.com>, JSON WG <json@ietf.org>, www-tag@w3.org, Anne van Kesteren <annevk@annevk.nl>, "t.p." <daedulus@btconnect.com>, es-discuss <es-discuss@mozilla.org>
Subject: Re: [Json] BOMs
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Hello Henry, others, On 2013/11/20 3:55, Henry S. Thompson wrote: > Allen Wirfs-Brock writes: > >> There can be no doubt that the most widely deployed JSON parsers are >> those that are built intp the browser javascript implementations. >> The ECMAScript 5 specification for JSON.parse that they implement >> says BOM is an illegal character. But what do the browser actually >> implement? This: > > No, try e.g. jsonviewer.stack.hu [1] (works in Chrome, Safari, Opera, > not in IE or Firefox) In Firefox, I got some garbled characters, in particular some question marks for each of the two bytes of the BOM and one question mark for the e-acute. Because of the type of the errors, I strongly suspect it is related to what we are trying to investigate, and so I don't think this can be taken as evidence one way or another. or feed [2] to www.jsoneditoronline.org (Use > Open/Url) (works in Chrome, IE, Firefox, ran out of time to test more). The fact that some libraries or Web sites accept a BOM for JSON isn't a proof that all (well, let's say the majority) accept a BOM. > As previously discussed, _no-one_ is arguing that BOMs are in the JSON > language as such. JSON parsers shouldn't accept BOMs. > > BOMs are, to quote the UNICODE spec, "not part of the text". It is > appropriate that specs concerned with JSON-on-the-wire, for example > the media type registration for 'application/json', _should_ discuss > the BOM, and it's open to them, _without changing the language at > all_, to say that BOMs are acceptable but, again, are not part of the > text which the parser has to accept. I agree that *from a theoretical viewpoint*, this is correct. But theory isn't everything. As I have written before (and you have cited in another thread, for another spec): What's most important now is to know what receivers actually accept. We are not in a design phase, we are just updating the definition ... and making sure we fix problems if there are problems, but we have to use the installed base for the main guidance For our update from RFC 4627, the null hypothesis is that there are no BOMs (neither for UTF-8 nor for UTF-16). The patterns given in http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4627#section-3 cannot apply to characters, they can only apply to bytes. If we want to allow a spec in application/json, then we have to have strong evidence that almost all parsers can deal with BOMs, not just fragmentary evidence that some parsers don't choke on a BOM. Please note that there's some parallel to XML, in that neither Unicode (for the encoding form) nor the IETF (for the 'charset') require a BOM for "UTF-16", but XML nevertheless strictly requires it. Regards, Martin. > ht > > [1] http://jsonviewer.stack.hu/#http://www.ltg.ed.ac.uk/~ht/ov-test/b16le.json
- Re: [Json] JSON: remove gap between Ecma-404 and … Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Json] JSON: remove gap between Ecma-404 and … Joe Hildebrand (jhildebr)
- Re: [Json] JSON: remove gap between Ecma-404 and … Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Json] JSON: remove gap between Ecma-404 and … Joe Hildebrand (jhildebr)
- Re: [Json] JSON: remove gap between Ecma-404 and … Tony Hansen
- Re: [Json] JSON: remove gap between Ecma-404 and … Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Json] JSON: remove gap between Ecma-404 and … Allen Wirfs-Brock
- Re: [Json] JSON: remove gap between Ecma-404 and … Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Json] JSON: remove gap between Ecma-404 and … Joe Hildebrand
- Re: [Json] JSON: remove gap between Ecma-404 and … Joe Hildebrand (jhildebr)
- Re: [Json] JSON: remove gap between Ecma-404 and … Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Json] JSON: remove gap between Ecma-404 and … John Cowan
- Re: [Json] JSON: remove gap between Ecma-404 and … Joe Hildebrand (jhildebr)
- Re: [Json] JSON: remove gap between Ecma-404 and … Mark Davis ☕
- Re: [Json] JSON: remove gap between Ecma-404 and … John Cowan
- Re: [Json] JSON: remove gap between Ecma-404 and … Allen Wirfs-Brock
- Re: [Json] JSON: remove gap between Ecma-404 and … Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection John Cowan
- Re: [Json] JSON: remove gap between Ecma-404 and … Martin J. Dürst
- [Json] Encoding detection (Was: Re: JSON: remove … Pete Cordell
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection (Was: Re: JSON: rem… Joe Hildebrand (jhildebr)
- Re: [Json] JSON: remove gap between Ecma-404 and … John Cowan
- Re: [Json] JSON: remove gap between Ecma-404 and … Henry S. Thompson
- Re: [Json] JSON: remove gap between Ecma-404 and … Allen Wirfs-Brock
- Re: [Json] JSON: remove gap between Ecma-404 and … Allen Wirfs-Brock
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection Henry S. Thompson
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection John Cowan
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection David Booth
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection Henry S. Thompson
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection Pete Cordell
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection Bjoern Hoehrmann
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection Paul Hoffman
- [Json] BOMs (Was: Re: JSON: remove gap between Ec… Pete Cordell
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection Pete Cordell
- Re: [Json] BOMs Henry S. Thompson
- Re: [Json] BOMs Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [Json] BOMs Bjoern Hoehrmann
- Re: [Json] BOMs Henry S. Thompson
- Re: [Json] BOMs Pete Cordell
- Re: [Json] BOMs Bjoern Hoehrmann
- Re: [Json] BOMs (Was: Re: JSON: remove gap betwee… Tim Bray
- Re: [Json] BOMs (Was: Re: JSON: remove gap betwee… Pete Cordell
- Re: [Json] BOMs John Cowan
- Re: [Json] BOMs (Was: Re: JSON: remove gap betwee… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Json] BOMs (Was: Re: JSON: remove gap betwee… John Cowan
- Re: [Json] BOMs (Was: Re: JSON: remove gap betwee… Pete Cordell
- Re: [Json] BOMs (Was: Re: JSON: remove gap betwee… Pete Cordell
- Re: [Json] BOMs (Was: Re: JSON: remove gap betwee… John Cowan
- Re: [Json] BOMs Tatu Saloranta
- Re: [Json] BOMs Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Json] BOMs Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [Json] BOMs Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [Json] BOMs Pete Cordell
- Re: [Json] BOMs Bjoern Hoehrmann
- Re: [Json] BOMs t.p.
- Re: [Json] BOMs Allen Wirfs-Brock
- Re: [Json] BOMs Tatu Saloranta
- Re: [Json] BOMs Henry S. Thompson
- Re: [Json] BOMs Joe Hildebrand (jhildebr)
- Re: [Json] BOMs Chris Lilley
- Re: [Json] BOMs Pete Cordell
- Re: [Json] BOMs Henry S. Thompson
- Re: [Json] BOMs Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [Json] BOMs Henry S. Thompson
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection (Was: Re: JSON: rem… Henri Sivonen
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection (Was: Re: JSON: rem… John Cowan
- Re: [Json] BOMs Allen Wirfs-Brock
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection (Was: Re: JSON: rem… Henri Sivonen
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection (Was: Re: JSON: rem… Anne van Kesteren
- Re: [Json] BOMs Henri Sivonen
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection (Was: Re: JSON: rem… John Cowan
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection (Was: Re: JSON: rem… Joe Hildebrand (jhildebr)
- Re: [Json] BOMs Allen Wirfs-Brock
- Re: [Json] BOMs Bjoern Hoehrmann
- Re: [Json] BOMs Mathias Bynens
- Re: [Json] BOMs John Cowan
- Re: [Json] BOMs Bjoern Hoehrmann
- Re: [Json] BOMs Nico Williams
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection (Was: Re: JSON: rem… Henri Sivonen
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection (Was: Re: JSON: rem… Pete Cordell
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection (Was: Re: JSON: rem… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection (Was: Re: JSON: rem… Robin Berjon
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection (Was: Re: JSON: rem… John Cowan
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection (Was: Re: JSON: rem… Tim Bray
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection (Was: Re: JSON: rem… Allen Wirfs-Brock
- [Json] Consensus on JSON-text (WAS: JSON: remove … Matt Miller (mamille2)
- Re: [Json] BOMs Matt Miller (mamille2)
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection (Was: Re: JSON: rem… Matt Miller (mamille2)
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection (Was: Re: JSON: rem… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Json] BOMs Bjoern Hoehrmann
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection (Was: Re: JSON: rem… Bjoern Hoehrmann
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection (Was: Re: JSON: rem… John Cowan
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection (Was: Re: JSON: rem… John Cowan
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection (Was: Re: JSON: rem… Matt Miller (mamille2)
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection (Was: Re: JSON: rem… Pete Cordell
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection (Was: Re: JSON: rem… Pete Cordell
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection (Was: Re: JSON: rem… Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection (Was: Re: JSON: rem… Allen Wirfs-Brock
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection (Was: Re: JSON: rem… Bjoern Hoehrmann
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection (Was: Re: JSON: rem… Henri Sivonen
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection (Was: Re: JSON: rem… Nico Williams
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection (Was: Re: JSON: rem… John Cowan
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection (Was: Re: JSON: rem… Jacob Davies
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection (Was: Re: JSON: rem… Nico Williams
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection (Was: Re: JSON: rem… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection (Was: Re: JSON: rem… Nico Williams
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection (Was: Re: JSON: rem… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection (Was: Re: JSON: rem… Nico Williams
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection (Was: Re: JSON: rem… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection (Was: Re: JSON: rem… Nico Williams
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection (Was: Re: JSON: rem… Bjoern Hoehrmann
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection (Was: Re: JSON: rem… Nico Williams
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection (Was: Re: JSON: rem… Henri Sivonen
- Re: [Json] Encoding detection (Was: Re: JSON: rem… John Cowan
- Re: [Json] Consensus on JSON-text (WAS: JSON: rem… Tim Bray
- Re: [Json] Consensus on JSON-text (WAS: JSON: rem… Alex Russell
- Re: [Json] Consensus on JSON-text (WAS: JSON: rem… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Json] Consensus on JSON-text (WAS: JSON: rem… John Cowan
- Re: [Json] Consensus on JSON-text (WAS: JSON: rem… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Json] Consensus on JSON-text (WAS: JSON: rem… Tim Bray
- Re: [Json] Consensus on JSON-text (WAS: JSON: rem… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Json] Consensus on JSON-text (WAS: JSON: rem… Joe Hildebrand (jhildebr)
- Re: [Json] Consensus on JSON-text (WAS: JSON: rem… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Json] Consensus on JSON-text (WAS: JSON: rem… Tim Berners-Lee
- Re: [Json] Consensus on JSON-text (WAS: JSON: rem… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Json] Consensus on JSON-text (WAS: JSON: rem… Allen Wirfs-Brock
- Re: [Json] Consensus on JSON-text (WAS: JSON: rem… Noah Mendelsohn
- Re: [Json] Consensus on JSON-text (WAS: JSON: rem… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Json] Consensus on JSON-text (WAS: JSON: rem… Ashok Malhotra
- Re: [Json] Consensus on JSON-text (WAS: JSON: rem… Nico Williams
- Re: [Json] Consensus on JSON-text (WAS: JSON: rem… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Json] Consensus on JSON-text (WAS: JSON: rem… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Json] Consensus on JSON-text (WAS: JSON: rem… John Cowan
- Re: [Json] Consensus on JSON-text (WAS: JSON: rem… Alex Russell
- Re: [Json] Consensus on JSON-text (WAS: JSON: rem… Nico Williams
- Re: [Json] Consensus on JSON-text (WAS: JSON: rem… John Cowan