Re: [Json] FYI ECMA, W3C, IETF coordination on JSON
Brian Kardell <bkardell@gmail.com> Tue, 08 October 2013 19:22 UTC
Return-Path: <bkardell@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5411121F9E9D for <json@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 8 Oct 2013 12:22:08 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.599
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 53I812eNVVOK for <json@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 8 Oct 2013 12:22:00 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-lb0-x22a.google.com (mail-lb0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c04::22a]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9541621F9E89 for <json@ietf.org>; Tue, 8 Oct 2013 12:21:59 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-lb0-f170.google.com with SMTP id w7so7388312lbi.29 for <json@ietf.org>; Tue, 08 Oct 2013 12:21:58 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=irm+KH9iXGOEwFJDBmr34E6rOpmZeYa8KokZC0xOB1w=; b=nBtnP200MlxSz91rKGbU3xuFOQGFMlUa9i7RyOT6e07VIKz8BsTLW0PA/l0qitVX8t 5VtXxZ1omKYw7bXJax/ozFNwpjazCyeaMP+/357kAEX/fMVlhk43IMtWXfSM0kwekG01 Zqf2uJgi4+Vc0UIi/XIAUjoKBrFSzCX3xwDX+7E+0KI/2qWj1xIdlZbSY5+eBu5VgcCt ngZx3MclUKFcu6bdDiDVXbOYj3ZSyUkkYxQJvTRBy33BU8qh9atSElIrNwKWaUkiV8Oq Sw1Z8cn1tW8TFrwgo6hPiOyxDDFH0FocmkEsHLbY1Dqw3SRCuCSVl7awunv/OsPjn960 +IWw==
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.112.57.49 with SMTP id f17mr3800089lbq.26.1381260118507; Tue, 08 Oct 2013 12:21:58 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.112.173.133 with HTTP; Tue, 8 Oct 2013 12:21:58 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <525455D4.8090105@gmail.com>
References: <C68CB012D9182D408CED7B884F441D4D3482260661@nambxv01a.corp.adobe.com> <CAHBU6ivjOHyfMeSNPK3+A_4+VVsyH5Y9XDj77J01OZCjdB6wmA@mail.gmail.com> <525429ED.5000705@gmail.com> <04FC3123-33A4-40DA-AD5D-DA543435DE56@wirfs-brock.com> <20131008164219.GA16081@mercury.ccil.org> <52544E3C.7000907@gmail.com> <CAHBU6it5Gw-JDWZk1AdqoCe_i-jqwUu3eMLrbZZe1VC3uVFkuw@mail.gmail.com> <525455D4.8090105@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2013 12:21:58 -0700
Message-ID: <CADC=+jeB21vKkEr-Py0WTKgfLxUeprqXb2pqU51Q9cch-_EaCg@mail.gmail.com>
From: Brian Kardell <bkardell@gmail.com>
To: "Peter F. Patel-Schneider" <pfpschneider@gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1133eacab4c83604e83faecb"
X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 08 Oct 2013 12:36:43 -0700
Cc: Allen Wirfs-Brock <allen@wirfs-brock.com>, John Cowan <cowan@mercury.ccil.org>, JSON WG <json@ietf.org>, Tim Bray <tbray@textuality.com>, Larry Masinter <masinter@adobe.com>, "www-tag@w3.org" <www-tag@w3.org>
Subject: Re: [Json] FYI ECMA, W3C, IETF coordination on JSON
X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" <json.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/json>, <mailto:json-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/json>
List-Post: <mailto:json@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:json-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/json>, <mailto:json-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2013 19:25:11 -0000
On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 11:58 AM, Peter F. Patel-Schneider < pfpschneider@gmail.com> wrote: > Yes indeed. Yes indeed. The double quote may not appear within > quotation marks, by a two-to-one vote. > > peter > > > On 10/08/2013 11:32 AM, Tim Bray wrote: > >> On the other hand, the opening paragraph of section 9 makes sure that >> you’re really clear about which characters may and may not be placed >> between quotation marks. >> >> >> On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 11:26 AM, Peter F. Patel-Schneider < >> pfpschneider@gmail.com <mailto:pfpschneider@gmail.com**>> wrote: >> >> The paragraph on numbers, see below, seems rather dangerous, as well >> as >> being incorrect. The paragraph on strings, also below, ignores all >> the >> problems with escaped code units that do not represent a Unicode code >> point. >> >> peter >> >> >> On 10/08/2013 09:42 AM, John Cowan wrote: >> >> Allen Wirfs-Brock scripsit: >> >> The draft was approved by a letter ballot of the Ecma General >> Assembly. It is now available as Ecma-404: >> >> Almost all of it is derived directly from the RFC, with some >> editorial >> cleanup. The Introduction, however, is new. I reproduce it here >> in >> case >> the Editor wishes to mine it for anything: >> [...] >> >> >> JSON is agnostic about numbers. In any programming language, >> there can be a variety of number types of various capacities >> and complements, fixed or floating, binary or decimal. That >> can make interchange between different programming languages >> difficult. JSON instead offers only the representation of >> numbers >> that humans use: a sequence of digits. All programming >> languages >> know how to make sense of digit sequences even if they >> disagree >> on internal representations. That is enough to allow >> interchange. >> >> JSON text is a sequence of Unicode code points. JSON also >> depends >> on Unicode in the hex numbers used in the \u escapement [sic] >> notation. >> [...] >> >> >> >> > > So I guess my big question I keep asking myself is this: Despite the fact that it didn't involve standards bodies and committees to get out the door - JSON is really *really* interoperable. There are potentially some edge cases, but given its importance to the Web it does seem like the ECMA version is the most important baseline here. If we want to make improvements, why not just invent some other thing - not JSON... Call it "super json" or "phil" or - just something else...And let that something else attempt to address perceived problems and make some minor comments about the ability to parse a subset of it with the standard JSON parsers that conform to ECMA-404 or something and then go out there and compete and see if it actually does better. Maybe it will and we can all go have beers and laugh about it, but - maybe it won't and at least we don't have to break things. -- Brian Kardell :: @briankardell
- [Json] FYI ECMA, W3C, IETF coordination on JSON Larry Masinter
- Re: [Json] FYI ECMA, W3C, IETF coordination on JS… Tim Bray
- Re: [Json] FYI ECMA, W3C, IETF coordination on JS… Peter F. Patel-Schneider
- Re: [Json] FYI ECMA, W3C, IETF coordination on JS… Allen Wirfs-Brock
- Re: [Json] FYI ECMA, W3C, IETF coordination on JS… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Json] FYI ECMA, W3C, IETF coordination on JS… Peter F. Patel-Schneider
- Re: [Json] FYI ECMA, W3C, IETF coordination on JS… John Cowan
- Re: [Json] FYI ECMA, W3C, IETF coordination on JS… Jorge Chamorro Bieling
- Re: [Json] FYI ECMA, W3C, IETF coordination on JS… Peter F. Patel-Schneider
- Re: [Json] FYI ECMA, W3C, IETF coordination on JS… Tim Bray
- Re: [Json] FYI ECMA, W3C, IETF coordination on JS… Jorge Chamorro
- Re: [Json] FYI ECMA, W3C, IETF coordination on JS… Peter F. Patel-Schneider
- Re: [Json] FYI ECMA, W3C, IETF coordination on JS… Peter F. Patel-Schneider
- Re: [Json] FYI ECMA, W3C, IETF coordination on JS… Brian Kardell
- Re: [Json] FYI ECMA, W3C, IETF coordination on JS… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Json] FYI ECMA, W3C, IETF coordination on JS… Allen Wirfs-Brock
- Re: [Json] FYI ECMA, W3C, IETF coordination on JS… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Json] FYI ECMA, W3C, IETF coordination on JS… Peter F. Patel-Schneider
- Re: [Json] FYI ECMA, W3C, IETF coordination on JS… Peter F. Patel-Schneider
- Re: [Json] FYI ECMA, W3C, IETF coordination on JS… Tatu Saloranta
- Re: [Json] FYI ECMA, W3C, IETF coordination on JS… Tatu Saloranta
- Re: [Json] FYI ECMA, W3C, IETF coordination on JS… Peter F. Patel-Schneider
- Re: [Json] FYI ECMA, W3C, IETF coordination on JS… Jorge Chamorro
- Re: [Json] FYI ECMA, W3C, IETF coordination on JS… Brian Kardell
- Re: [Json] FYI ECMA, W3C, IETF coordination on JS… Tim Bray
- Re: [Json] FYI ECMA, W3C, IETF coordination on JS… Larry Masinter
- Re: [Json] FYI ECMA, W3C, IETF coordination on JS… Bjoern Hoehrmann
- Re: [Json] FYI ECMA, W3C, IETF coordination on JS… Tim Bray
- Re: [Json] FYI ECMA, W3C, IETF coordination on JS… John Levine