Re: [Json] Regarding JSON text sequence ambiguities (Re: serializing sequences of JSON values)
Tim Bray <tbray@textuality.com> Thu, 13 March 2014 21:52 UTC
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Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 14:52:09 -0700
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From: Tim Bray <tbray@textuality.com>
To: Larry Masinter <masinter@adobe.com>
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Cc: Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com>, "json@ietf.org" <json@ietf.org>, Phillip Hallam-Baker <hallam@gmail.com>, Matthew Morley <matt@mpcm.com>, Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org>
Subject: Re: [Json] Regarding JSON text sequence ambiguities (Re: serializing sequences of JSON values)
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Except for, a spec that just rules out the interoperability gotchas in 7159 is such a low-hanging fruit, and avoids so many slippery slopes. Damn, I wish that stupid 2028/2029 thing had come across the radar before we finished 7159. On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 2:44 PM, Larry Masinter <masinter@adobe.com> wrote: > I think most of i-json and also this discussion on JSON sequences would > fit into a “guidelines” document. “Guidelines for use of JSON in Internet > protocols”. > > Then it could be BCP, could cover \u2028 \u2029, string length limits, > floating point, separators in sequences, and other advice. > > > > much more straightforward. It could even cover “JSON vs alternatives” and > pros and cons comparison to XML, CBOR, ASN.1 and whatever. > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* json [mailto:json-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Matthew Morley > *Sent:* Tuesday, March 11, 2014 11:27 AM > *To:* Nico Williams > *Cc:* Tim Bray; Phillip Hallam-Baker; Paul Hoffman; json@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [Json] Regarding JSON text sequence ambiguities (Re: > serializing sequences of JSON values) > > > > I'm not advocating for comma separators... > > But having multiple top level JSON elements separated by a coma is > equivalent to processing an array structure. The initial [ and the closing > ] are implicitly mapped to the connection/stream/etc. start and end events. > > It is just a minor token replacement at the top level between elements, > which could be layered into some existing tooling. From this point of view, > I would imagine the retooling is minor for either use case. It does mean > tools need to be depth aware. > > > > On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 2:08 PM, Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com> > wrote: > > On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 12:09 PM, Phillip Hallam-Baker <hallam@gmail.com> > wrote: > > On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 12:48 PM, Tim Bray <tbray@textuality.com> wrote: > >> > >> Heh, I wonder if there’d be any chance of getting consensus. I can’t > >> imagine ever using anything but Object Object Object with optional > >> whitespace separator; unless we all agree on that going in I’d > pessimistic > >> about anyone convincing anyone else... > > > > But JSON has comma separators, so {..}, {..}, {..} makes far more sense. > > JSON text sequences would be a new Proposed Standard (if we go there) > but like JSON, there exist uses of this "new" thing already -- that > is, before we get to writing the RFC. > > The uses of JSON text sequences that I know of use newlines, not > commas nor comma-and-newline. The reason for this is that these use > cases are text logfile-like: the entries are lines, lines containing > JSON texts -- usually compact texts, i.e., with no newlines in the > text, and never more than one text per-line. > > For me other uses of JSON text sequences generally result from my use > of jq, which also effectively separates texts with a newline. Note > that jq doesn't need texts to be written compactly when parsing JSON > text sequences. It happens though that if you write texts compactly > followed by a newline then you can implement JSON text sequences with > all existing JSON parsers. > > Switching to using a comma-and-newline would require significant > retooling. Therefore I don't see it happening. Whereas just > separating JSON texts with newlines is in use because it's always been > the obvious thing to do. > > Nico > -- > > > > > > -- > Matthew P. C. Morley >
- [Json] Regarding JSON text sequence ambiguities (… Nico Williams
- Re: [Json] Regarding JSON text sequence ambiguiti… Nico Williams
- Re: [Json] Regarding JSON text sequence ambiguiti… John Cowan
- Re: [Json] Regarding JSON text sequence ambiguiti… Nico Williams
- Re: [Json] Regarding JSON text sequence ambiguiti… John Cowan
- Re: [Json] Regarding JSON text sequence ambiguiti… Tatu Saloranta
- Re: [Json] Regarding JSON text sequence ambiguiti… Matthew Morley
- Re: [Json] Regarding JSON text sequence ambiguiti… Nico Williams
- Re: [Json] Regarding JSON text sequence ambiguiti… Tim Bray
- Re: [Json] Regarding JSON text sequence ambiguiti… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Json] Regarding JSON text sequence ambiguiti… Nico Williams
- Re: [Json] Regarding JSON text sequence ambiguiti… Nico Williams
- Re: [Json] Regarding JSON text sequence ambiguiti… Matthew Morley
- Re: [Json] Regarding JSON text sequence ambiguiti… Tim Bray
- Re: [Json] Regarding JSON text sequence ambiguiti… Nico Williams
- Re: [Json] Regarding JSON text sequence ambiguiti… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Json] Regarding JSON text sequence ambiguiti… Nico Williams
- Re: [Json] Regarding JSON text sequence ambiguiti… Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [Json] Regarding JSON text sequence ambiguiti… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Json] Regarding JSON text sequence ambiguiti… Larry Masinter
- Re: [Json] Regarding JSON text sequence ambiguiti… Tim Bray
- Re: [Json] Regarding JSON text sequence ambiguiti… Larry Masinter
- Re: [Json] Regarding JSON text sequence ambiguiti… Tim Bray
- Re: [Json] Regarding JSON text sequence ambiguiti… Nico Williams
- Re: [Json] Regarding JSON text sequence ambiguiti… Manger, James
- Re: [Json] Regarding JSON text sequence ambiguiti… Bjoern Hoehrmann
- Re: [Json] Regarding JSON text sequence ambiguiti… Manger, James
- Re: [Json] Regarding JSON text sequence ambiguiti… Nico Williams
- Re: [Json] Regarding JSON text sequence ambiguiti… Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [Json] Regarding JSON text sequence ambiguiti… John Cowan
- Re: [Json] Regarding JSON text sequence ambiguiti… Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [Json] Regarding JSON text sequence ambiguiti… Nico Williams