Re: [kitten] Proposal for tracking document reviews and skipping WGLC
Jeffrey Altman <jaltman@secure-endpoints.com> Tue, 21 June 2016 16:05 UTC
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To: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>, kitten@ietf.org
References: <alpine.GSO.1.10.1606202328590.18480@multics.mit.edu> <576902D4.5080303@cs.tcd.ie>
From: Jeffrey Altman <jaltman@secure-endpoints.com>
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Subject: Re: [kitten] Proposal for tracking document reviews and skipping WGLC
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On 6/21/2016 5:03 AM, Stephen Farrell wrote: > > Just for the record: I think this is a fine thing to try > for a while, and thanks to the chairs for being willing. > I hope the WG are also willing to give it a shot as I figure > we need to make IETF stuff easier for WGs like kitten that > maintain important protocols through what will sometimes > be relatively "low energy" periods. > > S. Stephen, I will point out that even when documents complete WGLC they do not necessarily move forward. For example, https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-kitten-aes-cts-hmac-sha2/ which has been waiting for a write-up for five months. This is a document that not only passed WGLC but has two independent interoperable implementations blocked waiting for assignment of ETYPE and SUMTYPE values by IANA. As a former Kitten chair, the lack of available resources to work on protocol design, documents, and implementations is not new. The GSS/Kerberos community has suffered with resource starvation for decades. Although GSS, Kerberos and other authentication technologies are critical to the functioning of non-web network communications there has never been sufficient funding available to complete even 10% of the work that needs to be accomplished. This is a key factor in the time it takes to get things done. When the WG Chairs and key participants are not funded to work on GSS/Kerberos it is very hard for them to prioritize the work. In the end, none of us are independently wealthy and few of participant's employers pay the participants for this work. As someone who funded one of the independent implementations of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-kitten-aes-cts-hmac-sha2/ I can tell you that there is little incentive for me to spend those funds in the future if it is going to take 9 months to a year post the expenditure to see the benefits. It makes me appreciate why a company like Microsoft might decide to stop investing in core GSS/Kerberos and instead layer additional complexity on top of what is already standardized. The current development work cycle is well under a year. If we can't standardize a protocol extension in six months it won't be possible to ship products that utilize the functionality. While tooling might help, the underlying issue is lack of qualified developer and reviewer time. In the end, like anything else, that is going to have to be paid for by someone. Thanks for listening. Jeffrey Altman
- Re: [kitten] Proposal for tracking document revie… Nico Williams
- Re: [kitten] Proposal for tracking document revie… Henry B (Hank) Hotz, CISSP
- Re: [kitten] Proposal for tracking document revie… Nico Williams
- Re: [kitten] Proposal for tracking document revie… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [kitten] Proposal for tracking document revie… Jeffrey Altman
- Re: [kitten] Proposal for tracking document revie… Stephen Farrell
- [kitten] Proposal for tracking document reviews a… Benjamin Kaduk