To: Jeffrey Altman <jaltman@secure-endpoints.com>,
 Luke Howard <lukeh@padl.com>, Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@MIT.EDU>
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 <alpine.GSO.1.10.1606272147210.18480@multics.mit.edu>
 <677848B0-17A4-47A6-93EB-F9939654DBAC@padl.com>
 <12304a67-7cd8-9010-7164-abfd0a47d0d4@secure-endpoints.com>
From: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
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Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2016 10:57:07 +0100
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Cc: kitten@ietf.org, draft-ietf-kitten-aes-cts-hmac-sha2@tools.ietf.org
Subject: Re: [kitten] shepherd review of draft-aes-cts-hmac-sha2-09
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Hiya,

I nearly just started the IETF last call for this, but then
noticed these emails;-) Please ignore any status change
emails you may have seen.

Chairs - please tell me when you want me to start IETF LC.

I did my AD review of it, and modulo this discussion being
resolved, I think it's ready to go ahead.

Thanks,
S.

On 28/06/16 12:58, Jeffrey Altman wrote:
> +1
>=20
> On 6/28/2016 3:21 AM, Luke Howard wrote:
>> I reckon let's do it "properly" even if at the expense of redundant te=
xt.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On 28 Jun 2016, at 11:49, Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@MIT.EDU> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks, Michael.
>>>
>>> If the WG does want to treat the PRF octet-string input as a SP800-10=
8
>>> context and use a zero-byte separator, it seems like the "quick-and-d=
irty"
>>> patch would be to just stick one in after "prf" and then there would =
be
>>> another (somewhat superfluous) one appended after the octet-string by=

>>> KDF-HMAC-SHA2.  That might be easier than essentially inlining the
>>> definitino of KDF-HMAC-SHA2 for just the PRF calculation.
>>>
>>> -Ben
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 27 Jun 2016, Michael Jenkins wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Ben,
>>>>
>>>> we'll get started on these.
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Jun 26, 2016 at 11:03 PM, Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu> wr=
ote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Michael et al,
>>>>>
>>>>> As I was preparing the shepherd writeup for this document, I notice=
d some
>>>>> things that do not block the progression of the document but do req=
uire
>>>>> changes, and one item that may require further WG input.  Can you p=
repare
>>>>> a new version with the changes mentioned below?
>>>>>
>>>>> The one item which would potentially affect the actual protocol: at=
 the
>>>>> end of Section 5, the pseudo-random function seems to be using a SP=
800-108
>>>>> KDF but omits the zero byte between label and context.  I think it =
would
>>>>> be better to have the zero byte -- do you remember whether there wa=
s a
>>>>> reason to omit it?  (Adding the zero byte would require re-rolling =
some
>>>>> test vectors, to be clear.)
>>>>>
>>>>> Additionally, all document authors will need to confirm compliance =
with
>>>>> BCPs 78 and 79 for this document, namely that there are no intellec=
tual
>>>>> property concerns with the document that are not already disclosed.=

>>>>>
>>>>> Please add a normative reference to RFC 2104 for HMAC, first mentio=
ned at
>>>>> the end of Section 1.
>>>>>
>>>>> In Section 3, it might aid clarity to mention that the 0x00000001 i=
nput to
>>>>> HMAC() is the 'i' parameter from SP800-108 [indicating that this is=
 the
>>>>> first block of output, even though it is the only block of output a=
s
>>>>> well].
>>>>>
>>>>> In Section 4, it might be worth re-mentioning "where PBKDF2 is the
>>>>> function of that name from RFC 2898" after the algorithm block, sin=
ce most
>>>>> everything else used there also gets clarified.  (It is already cit=
ed at
>>>>> the beginning of the section, in the overview paragraph.)
>>>>>
>>>>> The document should be consistent about using "cipher state" as one=
 word
>>>>> or two (RFC 3961 prefers the two-word form).  It also makes a rathe=
r
>>>>> sudden appearance at the beginning of Section 5 with no explanatory=

>>>>> introduction; it might help the reader to instead start with "The R=
FC 3961
>>>>> cipher state that maintains cryptographic state across different
>>>>> encryption operations using the same key is used as the formal
>>>>> initialization vector [...]" On the next page, "cipherstate" is def=
ined as
>>>>> "a 128-bit initialization vector derived from the ciphertext", whic=
h is
>>>>> potentially misleading, since it can't be both used as the IV for a=
nd
>>>>> derived from the same ciphertext!  Probably it's better to say "der=
ived
>>>>> from a previous (if any) ciphertext using the same encryption key, =
as
>>>>> specified below".
>>>>>
>>>>> Still in Section 5, in the definition of the encryption function (w=
ell,
>>>>> computing the cipherstate, really), I'm of two minds whether it's w=
orth
>>>>> mentioning that the case of L < 128 is impossible because of the 12=
8-bit
>>>>> confounder.
>>>>>
>>>>> In the decryption function, can you add a note to the right of "(C,=
 H) =3D
>>>>> ciphertext" that "[H is the last h bits of the ciphertext]"?
>>>>>
>>>>> In the pseudo-random function, please replace "base-key" with "inpu=
t-key",
>>>>> since the key input to the PRF is not expected to be a kerberos pro=
tocol
>>>>> long-term base key.
>>>>>
>>>>> In Section 6, the "associated cryptosystem"s are supposed to be
>>>>> "AES-128-CTS" or "AES-256-CTS", but those strings do not appear els=
ewhere
>>>>> in the document.  While the meaning is pretty clear, it's probably =
better
>>>>> to just say "aes128-cts-hmac-sha256-128 or aes256-cts-hmac-sha384-1=
92 as
>>>>> appropriate".  This does duplicate the preceding text, but we do wa=
nt to
>>>>> explicitly list the "associated encryption algorithm" as listed in =
the
>>>>> Checksum Algorithm Profile of Section 4 of RFC 3961.
>>>>>
>>>>> In Section 8.1, the acronym "TGT" is used, the only instance in the=

>>>>> document.  It's also potentially misleading, since ticket-granting =
tickets
>>>>> are generally objects that are issued to client principals by the A=
S.
>>>>> I'd go with "Cross-realm krbtgt keys" instead.
>>>>>
>>>>> The test vectors for key derivation have a parenthetical "constant =
=3D
>>>>> 0x...", but the term "constant" does not appear elsewhere in the do=
cument.
>>>>> The hex values are the label input for the HMAC, so we should call =
them
>>>>> that.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Ben
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Mike Jenkins
>>>> mjjenki@tycho.ncsc.mil - if you want me to read it only at my desk
>>>> m.jenkins.364706@gmail.com - to read everywhere
>>>> 443-634-3951
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Kitten mailing list
>>> Kitten@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/kitten
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Kitten mailing list
>> Kitten@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/kitten
>>
>=20
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Kitten mailing list
> Kitten@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/kitten
>=20


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