Re: [L2sm] Proposed Liaison to 3GPP SA5

Hi Adrian,

The definition of IETF informational models can be found in RFC 2026 section 4.2.2:

--------
4.2.2  Informational

   An "Informational" specification is published for the general
   information of the Internet community, and does not represent an
   Internet community consensus or recommendation.  The Informational
   designation is intended to provide for the timely publication of a
   very broad range of responsible informational documents from many
   sources, subject only to editorial considerations and to verification
   that there has been adequate coordination with the standards process
   (see section 4.2.3).

   Specifications that have been prepared outside of the Internet
   community and are not incorporated into the Internet Standards
   Process by any of the provisions of section 10 may be published as
   Informational RFCs, with the permission of the owner and the
   concurrence of the RFC Editor.
--------

That is my point, you can't call it consensus as the purpuse of an informational model is not to reach consensus.

Roque

On 05/06/18 19:36, "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote:

    Hi Roque,

    Well, both documents went through IETF last call, and both 8309 and 8199 have IETF consensus. As it says in the boilerplate for both documents.

       This document is a product of the Internet Engineering Task Force
       (IETF). It represents the consensus of the IETF community.  It has
       received public review and has been approved for publication by the
       Internet Engineering Steering Group (IESG).

    And as 8309 says

       This document describes service models as used within the IETF and
       also shows where a service model might fit into a software-defined
       networking architecture.

    So can you clarify what your concern is? 

    Thanks,
    Adrian

    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Roque Gagliano (rogaglia) [mailto:rogaglia@cisco.com]
    > Sent: 05 June 2018 17:42
    > To: adrian@olddog.co.uk; 'Fioccola Giuseppe'; l2sm@ietf.org
    > Subject: Re: [L2sm] Proposed Liaison to 3GPP SA5
    > 
    > Hi Adrian,
    > 
    > I agree that sending this message is a good idea.
    > 
    > However, I do not think the RFC 8309 is "explaining what the IETF means by the
    > term "Service Model". This is an informational document and as such does not
    > represent consensus or recommendation per RFC 2026. Personally, I agree with
    > Giuseppe that RFC 8199 is a better document but that is also an informational
    > document.
    > 
    > I better text could be:
    > "RFC 8199 and RFC 8309 are informational documents developed by the IETF
    > community to show examples on how service models could be implemented."
    > 
    > Regards,
    > Roque
    > 
    > 
    > On 05/06/18 17:58, "L2sm on behalf of Adrian Farrel" <l2sm-bounces@ietf.org on
    > behalf of adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote:
    > 
    >     Yes, good point.
    > 
    >     A
    > 
    >     > -----Original Message-----
    >     > From: Fioccola Giuseppe [mailto:giuseppe.fioccola@telecomitalia.it]
    >     > Sent: 05 June 2018 16:01
    >     > To: adrian@olddog.co.uk; l2sm@ietf.org
    >     > Subject: RE: [L2sm] Proposed Liaison to 3GPP SA5
    >     >
    >     > Hi Adrian, All,
    >     > I absolutely agree with the proposed Liaison to 3GPP SA5. I would also
    > suggest
    >     to
    >     > mention RFC8199 on YANG Module Classification.
    >     >
    >     > Best Regards,
    >     >
    >     > Giuseppe
    >     >
    >     > -----Original Message-----
    >     > From: L2sm [mailto:l2sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel
    >     > Sent: lunedì 4 giugno 2018 13:15
    >     > To: l2sm@ietf.org
    >     > Subject: [L2sm] Proposed Liaison to 3GPP SA5
    >     >
    >     > Hi WG,
    >     >
    >     > 3GPP SA5 is working on Management and orchestration of 5G networks and
    >     > network slicing (http://www.3gpp.org/NEWS-EVENTS/3GPP-NEWS/1951-
    >     > SA5_5G) and is considering various existing data models as references. 3GPP
    >     > Release-15 is targeting freeze date of September 2018 and plan two meetings
    > in
    >     > June and August respectively to meet the deadline of 3GPP Release-15.
    >     >
    >     > They seem to have been soliciting input from various SDOs (most recently the
    >     > BBF) but have not approached the IETF. This may be because they already
    > know
    >     > what we are working on, or it may be because they didn't realise.
    >     >
    >     > So Qin and I propose to send the following liaison statement to them for
    >     > information. Since the next meeting is on June 26th, we think the deadline
    > for
    >     > sending this is should be June 15th.
    >     >
    >     > Any comments or edits would be welcomed.
    >     >
    >     > Thanks for any input or advice.
    >     >
    >     > Qin and Adrian
    >     >
    >     > === Draft LS ===
    >     >
    >     > To: 3GPP SA5
    >     > Cc: Thomas Tovinger, 3GPP SA5 Chairman
    >     >        Ignas Bagdonas and Warren Kumari, IETF Operations and Management
    > ADs
    >     > From: Qin Wu and Adrian Farrel, IETF L2SM working group co-chairs
    >     > For: Information
    >     >
    >     > We note that 3GPP SA5 is working on Management and orchestration of 5G
    >     > networks and network slicing (http://www.3gpp.org/NEWS-EVENTS/3GPP-
    >     > NEWS/1951-SA5_5G) and is considering various existing data models as
    >     > references. 3GPP Release-15 is targeting freeze date of September 2018 and
    >     plan
    >     > two meetings in June and August respectively to meet the deadline of 3GPP
    >     > Release-15. We would like to take this opportunity to inform you of the status
    >     of
    >     > several pieces of work in the IETF that satisfy the transport support for
    >     network
    >     > slicing on IP services , L2 service, and TE service.
    >     >
    >     > RFC 8299 provides A YANG Data Model for L3VPN Service Delivery.
    >     > This document is a published RFC with IETF consensus.
    >     > https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8299.txt
    >     >
    >     > draft-ietf-l2sm-l2vpn-service-model provides A YANG Data Model for L2VPN
    >     > Service Delivery.
    >     > This document has achieved working group and IETF consensus, and is
    > currently
    >     > completing approval for publication as an RFC.
    >     > https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-l2sm-l2vpn-service-model-10.txt
    >     >
    >     > RFC 8309 sets the previous two documents in context by explaining what the
    >     IETF
    >     > means by the term "Service Model"
    >     > https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8309.txt
    >     >
    >     > You may also be interested in work in the TEAS working group on Abstraction
    >     and
    >     > Control of Traffic Engineered networks (ACTN).
    >     > In particular, there is YANG model for Virtual Network operation in an ACTN
    >     > context that may be of specific interest to you:
    >     > https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-teas-actn-vn-yang-00.txt
    >     >
    >     > Wishing you all success in your work,
    >     > Qin Wu and Adrian Farrel
    >     > Co-chairs, IETF L2SM working group
    >     > ===END===
    >     >
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