Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-lake-edhoc - respond by June 22

Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> Mon, 22 June 2020 00:29 UTC

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From: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2020 01:29:16 +0100
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Subject: Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-lake-edhoc - respond by June 22
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Hiya,

I've a couple of questions below as I don't quite get the
basis for your conclusion. (I'm not trying to argue your
conclusion but I don't understand it and would like to.)

On 22/06/2020 00:51, Christopher Wood wrote:
> I do not support adoption.
> 
> The charter of this WG states:
> 
> draft-selander-ace-cose-ecdhe is a candidate starting point for the
> LAKE produced by the WG. Any work available from TLS or other WGs
> that satisfies the determined requirements will also be evaluated for
> suitability, but does not preclude the WG from freely selecting its
> preferred LAKE for OSCORE.
> 
> Unless I missed it, work from TLS was not seriously evaluated for
> suitability.

I don't understand what work you mean. cTLS has been
adopted by the TLS WG and will be developed there. I
don't understand what useful thing this WG could do
about that.

> In fact, it seems we jumped right over it and landed on
> draft-selander-ace-cose-ecdhe.

Yes. That is the only other serious proposal of which
I'm aware.

> The cTLS authors demonstrated that this variant of the protocol can
> indeed meet the requirements set out in draft-ietf-lake-reqs-04,
> without compromising any of the benefits that the TLS ecosystem
> brings to the table. (Support for different server authentication
> modes, for example, is something TLS is well equipped to support.)

That's fine, but doesn't seem to speak to this adoption
call.

> 
> I understand that the TLS WG adopted cTLS and will continue its
> development there. However, that does not seem relevant for what this
> WG chooses. 

I really don't understand that. We have 2 serious
proposals. One will be processed elsewhere. The question
before us now is whether to pursue the other one or
not. It seems entirely relevant to me that we are left
with one or zero things to work on in this WG.

> By analogy, this would be similar to QUIC developing its
> own key exchange protocol since UDP is just slightly different from
> TCP. 

I don't find that analogy that useful tbh. QUIC is a
transport area WG chartered to develop a transport
protocol. This WG was chartered to do work on the topic
of key exchange, so I don't think the analogy holds.

> Clearly, that was not the path chosen, and I think it would be a
>  mistake to do that here without seriously considering cTLS.

Again - I've no clue what "seriously considering" might
mean. cTLS is being worked on. If we do not adopt edhoc
then what would this WG be doing? I don't think is makes
much sense for a WG to exist merely to "seriously consider"
a work item in another WG:-)

Cheers,
S.


> 
> Best, Chris
> 
> On Sun, Jun 21, 2020, at 1:13 PM, Jesus Sanchez-Gomez wrote:
>> Hello All,
>> 
>> I support the adoption of this document.
>> 
>> I've worked with the technology in research projects/papers
>> yielding good results.
>> 
>> There are several use cases where this technology is a good
>> solution for different research projects at the University of
>> Murcia and Odin Solutions.
>> 
>> While I've practical experience with this technology working 
>> specifically in LoRaWAN, its design makes it a good fit for any 
>> constrained radio link/LPWAN.
>> 
>> Also, it has potential to be implemented beyond LPWANs, like more 
>> generic IoT scenarios with large scalability.
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> 
>> 
>> -- Jesús Sánchez Gómez Contratado predoctoral // Phd Student.
>> Fundación Séneca. Comunidad Autónoma de la Región de Murcia +34 868
>> 88 96 74 +34 635 33 26 09 jesus.sanchez4@um.es Department of
>> Information and Communication Engineering Faculty of Computer
>> Science University of Murcia 30100 Murcia, Spain
>> 
>> -- Lake mailing list Lake@ietf.org 
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lake
>> 
>