Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Against Dan Harkins

Dan Harkins <> Fri, 28 October 2022 06:13 UTC

Return-Path: <>
Received: from localhost (localhost []) by (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D83EC14CE3E for <>; Thu, 27 Oct 2022 23:13:09 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -6.908
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.908 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from ([]) by localhost ( []) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EAUe85E6YnWg for <>; Thu, 27 Oct 2022 23:13:05 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ( []) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1666DC14CE2D for <>; Thu, 27 Oct 2022 23:13:05 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ( []) by (PMDF V6.8 #2433) with ESMTP id <> for; Fri, 28 Oct 2022 01:13:04 -0500 (CDT)
Received: from [] ( []) by (PMDF V6.8 #2433) with ESMTPSA id <> for; Thu, 27 Oct 2022 23:13:04 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ([] EXTERNAL) (EHLO []) with TLS/SSL by ([]) (PreciseMail V3.3); Thu, 27 Oct 2022 23:13:04 -0700
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2022 23:13:02 -0700
From: Dan Harkins <>
In-reply-to: <>
To: Adam Roach <>
Cc: "" <>
Message-id: <>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format="flowed"
Content-language: en-US
Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.13.0
X-PMAS-SPF: SPF check skipped for authenticated session (, send-ip=
X-PMAS-External-Auth: [] (EHLO [])
References: <> <> <> <> <E35A397E4DCDAD5D0BA33D9A@PSB> <> <40901823039A72E927E6387C@PSB> <> <5EE93148C706EEA966757077@PSB> <> <506C5C0B3BCC0996873C293E@PSB> <>
X-PMAS-Software: PreciseMail V3.3 [221003a] (
X-PMAS-Allowed: system rule (rule allow header:X-PMAS-External noexists)
Archived-At: <>
Subject: Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Against Dan Harkins
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF Last Calls <>
List-Unsubscribe: <>, <>
List-Archive: <>
List-Post: <>
List-Help: <>
List-Subscribe: <>, <>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2022 06:13:09 -0000

On 10/27/22 10:03 PM, Adam Roach wrote:
> On 10/27/22 20:39, John C Klensin wrote:
>> --On Thursday, October 27, 2022 22:27 -0500 Adam Roach
>> <> wrote:
>>> On 10/27/2022 10:24 PM, John C Klensin wrote:
>>>> But, again, your suggestion and mine don't seem very different
>>>> in practice, especially if there are no further inappropriate
>>>> postings.
>>> I will reiterate my previous point about the unlikelihood of
>>> this outcome, given that there have been inappropriate
>>> postings by Dan in this thread itself.
>> I believe at least most of those posting preceded the messages
>> from Dan about what he now understood and would not repeat in
>> the future.  If there are exceptions since then (I don't recall
>> any but have found these threads someone overwhelming), I
>> believe they fall into the range in which there seems to be
>> considerable disagreement in the community about appropriateness
>> or lack thereof.
> Yes, the thread has become rather voluminous again, so it's 
> understandable that you missed my most recent message on this topic. 
> The point I was reiterating was previously made in my email archived 
> here: 

   It's a bit to unroll but I was responding to someone who called April 
jokes "hateful and bullying". And my response that my accuser was unable to
see the obvious parody is, according to Adam, "egregious and beyond 
OK, well if that's the standard....

   Just to remind everyone, on this thread alone:

   - I've been accused, without evidence, of being "captive to a 
political ideology
      and world view that is antithetical to the objective of creating 
an Internet
      that is for everyone" and Adam said nothing about that;

   - I've been accused, without evidence, of taking part in some wild 
      involving being in the service of the mistress of an unnamed 
Russian diplomat
      and vague accusations of Holocaust denial and antisemitism, and 
again Adam
      said nothing about that.

I'd be a bit more accepting and understanding of the types of norms that
people are suggesting for these lists if their standard was applied 


"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to
escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius