Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Against Dan Harkins

Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com> Fri, 07 October 2022 15:02 UTC

Return-Path: <moore@network-heretics.com>
X-Original-To: last-call@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: last-call@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55502C1524AB for <last-call@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 7 Oct 2022 08:02:45 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -6.906
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.906 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VI2B0aS5Y90Q for <last-call@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 7 Oct 2022 08:02:41 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from out2-smtp.messagingengine.com (out2-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.26]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 18A2DC1522BC for <last-call@ietf.org>; Fri, 7 Oct 2022 08:02:40 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24C825C00F1 for <last-call@ietf.org>; Fri, 7 Oct 2022 11:02:40 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 07 Oct 2022 11:02:40 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:date:feedback-id:feedback-id:from:from:in-reply-to :in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:sender :subject:subject:to:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; t=1665154960; x=1665241360; bh=F DOg/h9zdK9HIaiOHouibywIWczpOyO+W9q/9llcPhw=; b=G70ST6O4Z3Iz1zSti P7oFVjqr7w0LbuptfKvSPn6ntjYlanVcQ6rH/MG1/mfKZs8rFNZKNvgZEpRvEdtl GmMm1xU1kudHVgAAcHrZtG12P1zX0DEsJOu7U63XSw8Ov12zbZ4z/zmMNPLp3+dW KMVfFXh3UoFR6riz0yWPiTEWPyrydncHVVm38q7jcdYwzJS6Qm7rAIyIh5duxJ1s WIl1CDim60OH0UhEQfDI+SIha9hEgpgDWfB1z7prFIvZPID5+kuC774eN2SzWYLf 0VFMo3xu1wjfA5ntnjcqYL01Dq0aYddPXBGkcD5lK2hYWJJ2XiwwpWks0p9FgYAH M0gwQ==
X-ME-Sender: <xms:jz9AY4vfPnJ41H1-ic7xVH9DeSgQ1Zv5ZLyQvTRyT7bhVCTVHMoGSQ> <xme:jz9AY1cstgdQsad4Q7FI0M9wRA6hM4yQH8iRmT3-C7VIKgVq21-Jjs9Z9_HATciU4 micwCZpLIgJ9Q>
X-ME-Received: <xmr:jz9AYzxj-z0PSs9duSlwNHM7Wa5CEqhA9fFUoto71P5Hb-xAjNDhwgRwJ1j50hEK7ms5GVOyzKRCDmb33XFDG1wN2xcEOkFbWZtUlFZre_UzayNmlcuGww>
X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvfedrfeeijedgkeegucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpefkffggfgfuvfhfhfgjtgfgsehtke ertddtfeejnecuhfhrohhmpefmvghithhhucfoohhorhgvuceomhhoohhrvgesnhgvthif ohhrkhdqhhgvrhgvthhitghsrdgtohhmqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeeftddvleeije evkeejhfeuudehveeihfejfedvgfduhfffhfduuddufeeggfetveenucevlhhushhtvghr ufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehmohhorhgvsehnvghtfihorh hkqdhhvghrvghtihgtshdrtghomh
X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:jz9AY7OUZAe5zdZLPT5gmh4_Xd1VZ2lywVOY3ZOs7412uOYwozsybA> <xmx:jz9AY4_msw7OevkC_gEgdR2PWeWeG_t_e7KQlB7bsRTk9GUpnurEjA> <xmx:jz9AYzVBePImed5vnNPwk1mh2H7uTnOreGq0229dr8LPyJ4l-myxPg> <xmx:kD9AY7KQWfftjlNUejNwh9OfbUnaiP4R9aVnnCQsnwSaVCVM4jmrbg>
Feedback-ID: i5d8c41f0:Fastmail
Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA for <last-call@ietf.org>; Fri, 7 Oct 2022 11:02:39 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <01b94c02-5b15-4abc-0fc0-3b9a5a713836@network-heretics.com>
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2022 11:02:39 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.11.0
Content-Language: en-US
To: last-call@ietf.org
References: <CFE25E25-D131-468E-9923-80350D6216F3@ietf.org> <DF06E9B6-CCCD-4A90-8E56-DC6C7297D642@apple.com> <1916ee1b-33bc-6180-f4e5-87446c962fc4@kit.edu> <6be2b10d-fd5c-06d7-3a61-9fc0b5ed7259@network-heretics.com> <03438936-c54c-3323-d101-60b59ac77b26@kit.edu> <95bed18d7cad17c1996451772065942ad74c2864.camel@ifi.uio.no> <ED468F15-C886-441B-9EE6-71596F612BC4@ietf.org> <DD29063A41A7DEA374F8E9E4@PSB> <CAL02cgRcUtvPfOmW3N7DH1FnwhA0Nk=uYnGVXR2rZ4Juv_ztFQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAPt1N1=rVYrqV7fUXm7Uaub89FEywihL89ef3wHsUEVajtcM+w@mail.gmail.com>
From: Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAPt1N1=rVYrqV7fUXm7Uaub89FEywihL89ef3wHsUEVajtcM+w@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/last-call/7l7ZGq670dEvOHLkeAvYm3NSoCo>
Subject: Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Against Dan Harkins
X-BeenThere: last-call@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF Last Calls <last-call.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/last-call>, <mailto:last-call-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/last-call/>
List-Post: <mailto:last-call@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:last-call-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/last-call>, <mailto:last-call-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2022 15:02:45 -0000

On 10/7/22 10:30, Ted Lemon wrote:

> The reality of communication, particularly communication with 
> strangers, is that you MUST assume that what you say will be taken 
> literally. 

In my experience, you can't assume any such thing.  People interpret 
messages however they interpret them, and there's no logic to it that I 
can see.   They'll feel free to read between the lines if that's what 
they're inclined to do, and they'll blame the speaker for whatever 
interpretation they come up with, no matter how farfetched.   So while I 
think it is worth effort on a speaker's part to try to minimize the 
potential for misunderstanding, this can really be like walking on 
eggshells, and no amount of effort is sufficient to prevent being taken 
"the wrong way".   So good luck to anyone who engages in public debate, 
and maybe we should all try to be more tolerant.

Keith