Re: [Last-Call] Professional organization? [was Re: Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Against Dan Harkins]

Marc Petit-Huguenin <> Fri, 07 October 2022 16:40 UTC

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Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2022 09:40:16 -0700
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To: Ted Lemon <>
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Subject: Re: [Last-Call] Professional organization? [was Re: Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Against Dan Harkins]
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On 10/7/22 09:02, Ted Lemon wrote:
> It is an organization that we participate in professionally, so it is a
> professional organization. It is not a social group. Hobbyists are welcome
> to participate, but it's reasonable for us to expect that they behave
> professionally.

As someone who pay from my own pocket to participate in the IETF, I suppose that I am part of that "them" that you clearly separate from the "us".

You know, up to this point, I tried really hard to understand the point of view of people who felt rejected by the IETF, but it was a bit theoretical to me.  With that condescending response I can now relate to that point of view.

So, thank you?

> On Fri, Oct 7, 2022 at 11:38 AM Marc Petit-Huguenin <>
> wrote:
>> On 10/7/22 07:30, Ted Lemon wrote:
>>> Precisely. The reality of communication, particularly communication with
>>> strangers, is that you MUST assume that what you say will be taken
>>> literally. And if you say something that, taken literally, is offensive,
>>> /you/ are responsible for giving offense, not the person who
>> misunderstood
>>> your intent. Of course we all can stand to be careful not to needlessly
>>> take offense, and of course we all want to think of each other as friends
>>> who understand each other.
>>> But in order for a diverse community to be inclusive, certain best
>>> practices must be followed. One of these is: always speak literally.
>> Never
>>> try to convey information ironically. That may be how you interact with
>>> your friends, and that's fine. But this is a professional organization
>> that
>>> does work, not a kaffeeklatsch where we hang out for pleasure. Even if
>> you
>> When did the IETF became a professional organization? (for reference, ACM
>> *is* a professional organization).

Marc Petit-Huguenin