Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Against Dan Harkins]

Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com> Tue, 04 October 2022 01:34 UTC

Return-Path: <moore@network-heretics.com>
X-Original-To: last-call@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: last-call@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E96C1C152591 for <last-call@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 3 Oct 2022 18:34:14 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.608
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.608 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id og64D2XR_x2E for <last-call@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 3 Oct 2022 18:34:10 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.24]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 205F2C14F724 for <last-call@ietf.org>; Mon, 3 Oct 2022 18:34:09 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from compute5.internal (compute5.nyi.internal [10.202.2.45]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A3FE3200904; Mon, 3 Oct 2022 21:34:07 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute5.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 03 Oct 2022 21:34:07 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:date:date:feedback-id:feedback-id:from:from :in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy :x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; t=1664847246; x= 1664933646; bh=4cFtMFJqsm319kac/sXvePsE/vP47QGH/UP4GolaSH0=; b=U wuhIbqyu/msoPcqY/A4s9QWLHAtWBroUOHQpeT0MlkZwQxPGGtw+Vl9VUnVAesfE NUkOZf8SDsFPxohZLr/Sv2Cwhg8/TWjmWlZPk/JLGUAm5NG3XDprmXYMtCTkk5fh BiT+f7N/8DAbu2QhX73u4PLMsAs/lCxeiQivbSVMumWz0hwqiTM5sZcV+RFO3ufO 2/s0C5JWagJWS9pOO+JY/mgS/ZDicTqbBYDLynNNHpjZMYtOg6kDQFgbEIsx6MIh 3rVkJmLZ1mU2pEKyd85zQvKls+2iFBoEgWCtqEDou/nMrKf+TjO1IuQR8eGM/IJ2 zY8S5DFhpI/IiIkanepqA==
X-ME-Sender: <xms:jo07YxsSMdTJqyT3VhX3XGwP2Q1ZroaWF-4R1IGf1WhUk4kmP6IP7Q> <xme:jo07Y6cTA9KssaTjsgSXCHi-_-UFlW-Jz4ucYYZOfgteShpiCj3n6FL33XVcYT3oP aRiQ3q7bBvoEg>
X-ME-Received: <xmr:jo07Y0zASxY49wrdin-dtSOOuTbZfPF1HbrrYf9gXWz1n92n_wgDcmfz4WmUFiFoFEBEh4T_Mr8ypM5IwAT_sh0sHQz2PrD4pl0LWxfljCV5eO1yin5aPg>
X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvfedrfeeitddggeekucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhepkfffgggfuffvvehfhfgjtgfgsehtkeertddtfeejnecuhfhrohhmpefmvghi thhhucfoohhorhgvuceomhhoohhrvgesnhgvthifohhrkhdqhhgvrhgvthhitghsrdgtoh hmqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeeuvdehheetfeduueejtdeludeigfevgffgudevveek uddvheevveegkeffvdejvdenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmh grihhlfhhrohhmpehmohhorhgvsehnvghtfihorhhkqdhhvghrvghtihgtshdrtghomh
X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:jo07Y4OU-P9aZixEq1-cetwG1SiitAwPNV_sEMHpEVLkOdZqbzICNA> <xmx:jo07Yx-yTBEzZLL_274CCeZEc7SltWOZOEg-VTipAJTvV5FX2vA66g> <xmx:jo07Y4VNKt3k6j-Ixf31ezxyGWeghaOrq9yLVZNMsj13iaKbEb0R5A> <xmx:jo07Y-EafBNbXG08d5PSN8MnqidVrgx6QrC6HkbeXBR47zXXZTuIzg>
Feedback-ID: i5d8c41f0:Fastmail
Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Mon, 3 Oct 2022 21:34:06 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <e2403a84-e3b3-298e-5fda-7d611e461395@network-heretics.com>
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2022 21:34:05 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.11.0
Content-Language: en-US
To: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>, Paul Wouters <paul.wouters@aiven.io>
Cc: last-call@ietf.org
References: <cfbe4c66-d57a-688d-b34b-9693638a8f40@network-heretics.com> <91A5E285-5C04-4562-B382-311E9A8DC4B0@aiven.io> <afd97038-b87a-204c-20f7-485f585907d1@network-heretics.com> <BDDD9778AE74B23631C24349@PSB>
From: Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>
In-Reply-To: <BDDD9778AE74B23631C24349@PSB>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/last-call/8RpAz9MA2sXhOb0xg1fAeK0mYD0>
Subject: Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Against Dan Harkins]
X-BeenThere: last-call@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF Last Calls <last-call.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/last-call>, <mailto:last-call-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/last-call/>
List-Post: <mailto:last-call@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:last-call-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/last-call>, <mailto:last-call-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2022 01:34:15 -0000

On 10/3/22 21:21, John C Klensin wrote:

> But, AFAICT, none of that has anything to do with BCP 83 because
> it, again, AFAICT, is strictly about mailing lists.

Mostly agree, but IESG did cite their censorship of Dan's drafts in 
support of their proposed action.  By now it's pointless to relitigate 
that censorship as the immediate damage has already been done and is 
irreparable.   But in the context of this PR-action it's fair, IMO, to 
question the propriety of IESG using their previous action to support 
their proposed action.

Keith