Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Against Dan Harkins

John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com> Mon, 03 October 2022 22:23 UTC

Return-Path: <john-ietf@jck.com>
X-Original-To: last-call@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: last-call@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 200D6C152591 for <last-call@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 3 Oct 2022 15:23:19 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.907
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.907 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jXLSTIQqJF8e for <last-call@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 3 Oct 2022 15:23:16 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from bsa2.jck.com (bsa2.jck.com [70.88.254.51]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6C67AC15258F for <last-call@ietf.org>; Mon, 3 Oct 2022 15:23:09 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [198.252.137.10] (helo=PSB) by bsa2.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.82 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <john-ietf@jck.com>) id 1ofTq3-000Irh-Jt; Mon, 03 Oct 2022 18:23:03 -0400
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2022 18:22:58 -0400
From: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
To: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>, Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>, "Murray S. Kucherawy" <superuser@gmail.com>
cc: Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com>, Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>, last-call@ietf.org
Message-ID: <4D6C23FCA0D271F939E9E266@PSB>
In-Reply-To: <e345ec9b-1a69-7085-1d0b-7dbcb82c36fe@gmail.com>
References: <CFE25E25-D131-468E-9923-80350D6216F3@ietf.org> <CAMm+Lwg4ZVW617hPBaLxHF8jJpm9pq2s66hO2LFr+-f1JAe9MA@mail.gmail.com> <abf3716a-0c87-ba7b-1e3c-f7d89f2da988@network-heretics.com> <CAPt1N1kNpfTG0AKzVN+LTt9wcwPHmbDqSSENuroMu_6EfvQ2wQ@mail.gmail.com> <d645ffda-4511-c555-8fc3-cb771243b360@network-heretics.com> <96ebb83d-6800-1760-2772-1af912b34413@nostrum.com> <6f6b2619-71a1-560f-3e9d-af522bad11af@network-heretics.com> <af07b879-0be7-b47d-7ec4-59da2b8eedc6@nostrum.com> <1973054181.725521.1664759781765@email.ionos.com> <21b4e88e-c33c-08fb-398c-df10924bbf15@network-heretics.com> <CAL0qLwaOuyN8LB75ZWiWXraOay+LRcstLe2_oehm0_sQ3uWx4w@mail.gmail.com> <7d97cb34-b0dc-4dd9-9b53-ffbf7c5d8f17@network-heretics.com> <e345ec9b-1a69-7085-1d0b-7dbcb82c36fe@gmail.com>
X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 198.252.137.10
X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: john-ietf@jck.com
X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on bsa2.jck.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/last-call/CmWxCztg0Qm1hAwoCLaqc17iYz8>
Subject: Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Against Dan Harkins
X-BeenThere: last-call@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF Last Calls <last-call.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/last-call>, <mailto:last-call-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/last-call/>
List-Post: <mailto:last-call@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:last-call-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/last-call>, <mailto:last-call-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2022 22:23:19 -0000


--On Tuesday, October 4, 2022 09:02 +1300 Brian E Carpenter
<brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> wrote:

> Keith, you wrote:
> 
>> Whether or not it's warranted, it's clearly a personal attack
>> on Dan.
> 
> No. It's directed very explicitly at a particular pattern of
> behaviour on some specific mailing lists. It doesn't say that
> he may no longer contribute, say, to Security Area activities.

Brian, while I agree about the "pattern of behavior" my
understanding of the BCP, Marshall's intent at the time, and
what we have done since, Dan (or anyone else similarly
sanctioned) could participate on other mailing lists and in
other activities but only as long as the maintainers of those
lists felt his behavior was appropriate to their work and either
represented a change of behavior from the behaviors cited in the
PR-action proposal.   If they concluded they were seeing the
same patterns of disruption-causing behavior that caused the
PR-action for the IETF list and other lists, they could ban him
there too and do so without further warnings, etc.

    john