IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Against Dan Harkins

Kjetil Torgrim Homme <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no> Thu, 06 October 2022 15:17 UTC

Return-Path: <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no>
X-Original-To: last-call@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: last-call@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA84BC14F747 for <last-call@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 6 Oct 2022 08:17:49 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -7.007
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.007 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=ifi.uio.no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1hrc_lktJNVP for <last-call@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 6 Oct 2022 08:17:45 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-out02.uio.no (mail-out02.uio.no [IPv6:2001:700:100:8210::71]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D36B6C14F727 for <last-call@ietf.org>; Thu, 6 Oct 2022 08:17:44 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ifi.uio.no; s=key2103; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version:Content-Type:References: In-Reply-To:Date:To:From:Subject:Message-ID:Sender:Reply-To:Cc:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=U5wgvkU36+wc/EdHOkpP8ZcNGhbSPeVETJner/Vayo0=; b=JFPkZmBt15SgCuVAjQKzHjRBfX KJHisy9ZJOef6Cac//VmZaGNw2s2DKVHEYoVigwY61gT8jmJ8dH2azG8xbcs/JMUVEvDaogBYFmm/ wRs3WvS7apDYey0ehYwWmw+ChhDgQTce8rEwl9VYsC61Mo+KE4/AJ/m9LaqBA5eg3NRiZwNO1pJ74 soLBXzIKYk3ulqaqXbTvAnVSS6MANldP4VpF6bJBU80RmgXDTXYpe6gzJUgTTfAUtDNjJZdyVQreO +DY9jA1/MgPKU0TybK0vPIumVnws6SRKak/smoixOTadhrNJZwM7VWLcLLX1ECm5YJrz4qgrOY0ld o7jlxu6g==;
Received: from mail-mx12.uio.no ([129.240.10.84]) by mail-out02.uio.no with esmtps (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.95) (envelope-from <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no>) id 1ogSd0-003A8z-Dt; Thu, 06 Oct 2022 17:17:39 +0200
Received: from wireguard.i.bitbit.net ([87.238.42.12] helo=comm.ms.redpill-linpro.com) by mail-mx12.uio.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) user kjetilho (Exim 4.95) (envelope-from <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no>) id 1ogSd1-000ANY-2u; Thu, 06 Oct 2022 17:17:39 +0200
Message-ID: <95bed18d7cad17c1996451772065942ad74c2864.camel@ifi.uio.no>
From: Kjetil Torgrim Homme <kjetilho@ifi.uio.no>
To: "Bless, Roland (TM)" <roland.bless@kit.edu>, last-call@ietf.org
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2022 17:17:35 +0200
In-Reply-To: <03438936-c54c-3323-d101-60b59ac77b26@kit.edu>
References: <CFE25E25-D131-468E-9923-80350D6216F3@ietf.org> <DF06E9B6-CCCD-4A90-8E56-DC6C7297D642@apple.com> <1916ee1b-33bc-6180-f4e5-87446c962fc4@kit.edu> <6be2b10d-fd5c-06d7-3a61-9fc0b5ed7259@network-heretics.com> <03438936-c54c-3323-d101-60b59ac77b26@kit.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
User-Agent: Evolution 3.40.4 (3.40.4-5.fc34)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-UiO-SPF-Received: Received-SPF: neutral (mail-mx12.uio.no: 87.238.42.12 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of ifi.uio.no) client-ip=87.238.42.12; envelope-from=kjetilho@ifi.uio.no; helo=comm.ms.redpill-linpro.com;
X-UiO-Spam-info: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-5.0, required=5.0, autolearn=disabled, UIO_MAIL_IS_INTERNAL=-5)
X-UiO-Scanned: 53025EE39DDC7B98027D9CB06B93B25138C89D39
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/last-call/CmllVj7Gob6r9e5QzIVTeaPRLeI>
Subject: Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Against Dan Harkins
X-BeenThere: last-call@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF Last Calls <last-call.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/last-call>, <mailto:last-call-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/last-call/>
List-Post: <mailto:last-call@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:last-call-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/last-call>, <mailto:last-call-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2022 15:17:49 -0000

On Thu, 2022-10-06 at 16:51 +0200, Bless, Roland (TM) wrote:
> First of all, expressing racism is not the same thing as expressing an 
> "unpopular opinion". Racism is simply not tolerable and I see that the
> leadership has an obligation to act upon that, therefore it is not about
> suppressing opinions that IETF leadership does not like.

Agreed.

> Second, even if
> we leave racism aside, it is clear from Dan's postings that he is
> discriminating against people of groups that the IETF should not
> exclude (and human dignity is non-negotiable).

Can you give me any examples of this?  So far no one has been able to
provide links to messages where Dan has expressed racist or
discriminatory views, so I would be very interested to see.

> His ridiculing and
> belittling postings show a clear lack of respect for individuals of
> these groups and it is unprofessional if the community repeatedly
> requested to stop that behavior, but he nevertheless still continues.

It seems to me Dan Harkins does not always suffer fools lightly (I hope
that is the correct idiom), but he doesn't discriminate against
"individuals of groups", but against "individuals".

-- 
venleg helsing,
Kjetil T.

v2.12.3 | Report a Bug | By Email