IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Against Dan Harkins

Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Thu, 06 October 2022 20:01 UTC

Return-Path: <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: last-call@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: last-call@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8705C1526F5 for <last-call@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 6 Oct 2022 13:01:14 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.109
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.109 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yXIgL4DrxGfW for <last-call@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 6 Oct 2022 13:01:14 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-pf1-x42c.google.com (mail-pf1-x42c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::42c]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5E795C14F72D for <last-call@ietf.org>; Thu, 6 Oct 2022 13:01:14 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-pf1-x42c.google.com with SMTP id y136so3050700pfb.3 for <last-call@ietf.org>; Thu, 06 Oct 2022 13:01:14 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to :content-language:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=2OGlzsPRQaTfzqQfrOCODwPQhM0nt2GNV8os/Ub6yoI=; b=aycSRGFwVLLIJZaHzvw8Y4kiMwCIpRb7U+K84p6yfBP81qobIEzLCwHCAw6ZM1FhQZ VlWn7oDK2tqxFXzgEUDafSUBivlPgzhKj2d7s7YV9PZGGSCM3QkBjxr2h9or4pKW8cz/ cttanqb3cC5ER9LY6QHsG/Tc8BVC6FdvRZiM/c3io7XBk5XzGO4HAd2PddQzCEfhT0ZQ 2c+TYTSTwvOBFM2Gvd9jnQl/ERFESCNmQ/HS6WOE5Kn1Em5jusz4Y1lkWG02Q9UmIo8m MtmyL22VtNo2v+0OZhBKM1i+lfPMrTtkYOHfmNZNtXPReyhU347chjbGyrcjAaVACy2/ 6IWA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to :content-language:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=2OGlzsPRQaTfzqQfrOCODwPQhM0nt2GNV8os/Ub6yoI=; b=qdnDwk0QQV5KCUrAi+3ODRS5F9c06rVroNGLvZpnZUOexkEzSasOJQnue3uxV4YV5u 8yBihLCUcnqRpVjnPQxXEk1QUPKbEn6OCqPJBdk/x4MvLmCvk7ZSqf0wJXkIU2YB/fvG RwF6KmVeMV8qsDX8knCtI/xaD9wRDVSJZ97c2F/LpuzS3WYCL7ni3br+DLPdQBfAXtfH SJxCVnjV0RG9yJarumcRRdDxmdT6YwK5p3ELoi10riw18ZQkQly+n6fvNPFuMz8LTZua VIGv6sARuBXkr8zF/89wlo8MUX92jejTUDFZ+roogi41UiEAiz5PBgYm9rhctvfh5bBM wD6w==
X-Gm-Message-State: ACrzQf0zDR9mY/Jhv47xuYIojMgGVejVXAJfeMPzlvhQKuh4IU88dci+ m5YWbqCeUhg03s3ZjSWl//L+I076xWSSIQ==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMsMyM4PbCRdn6bbbAH3Up+Luo98QOt9EhGnEdW3ISZhrSL7BnnilezYvJhzfmPnSQi4EtKkwtRogQ==
X-Received: by 2002:a62:1684:0:b0:554:cade:6970 with SMTP id 126-20020a621684000000b00554cade6970mr1445085pfw.11.1665086473751; Thu, 06 Oct 2022 13:01:13 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ?IPV6:2406:e003:1124:9301:80b2:5c79:2266:e431? ([2406:e003:1124:9301:80b2:5c79:2266:e431]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h17-20020a170902f55100b001788ccecbf5sm29144plf.31.2022.10.06.13.01.11 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 06 Oct 2022 13:01:13 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1012a11a-37f9-5f7d-71e7-c49c5936c755@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2022 09:01:08 +1300
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.10.0
Content-Language: en-US
To: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
Cc: last-call@ietf.org
References: <CFE25E25-D131-468E-9923-80350D6216F3@ietf.org> <33dcb391-6304-2a04-0041-ae8a0d9ee107@lounge.org> <118166719.778795.1665054336024@email.ionos.com> <CABcZeBOebDewrhpbntMHWLuF5iNd9WWUwKSTams-zbxEhtYe=w@mail.gmail.com> <1590543408.1336232.1665076691164@email.ionos.com> <CABcZeBPeOtJiuCSdpTCSe2kW+qyGO=J4nkyx7uNB7Jv-46kSNA@mail.gmail.com> <1231217507.1342484.1665078144505@email.ionos.com> <1405086916.1344169.1665078466708@email.ionos.com> <CABcZeBPmUGXZOsuxBa=ez1gX18Tj1oxca-RHYP9xKdHyrPWwxA@mail.gmail.com>
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CABcZeBPmUGXZOsuxBa=ez1gX18Tj1oxca-RHYP9xKdHyrPWwxA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/last-call/IlGRsYEOCfYlGN2usZ-8VctCH_U>
Subject: Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Against Dan Harkins
X-BeenThere: last-call@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF Last Calls <last-call.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/last-call>, <mailto:last-call-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/last-call/>
List-Post: <mailto:last-call@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:last-call-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/last-call>, <mailto:last-call-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2022 20:01:14 -0000

On 07-Oct-22 07:05, Eric Rescorla wrote:
> 
> 
> On Thu, Oct 6, 2022 at 10:47 AM Timothy Mcsweeney <tim@dropnumber.com <mailto:tim@dropnumber.com>> wrote:
> 
> 
>      > On 10/06/2022 1:42 PM EDT Timothy Mcsweeney <tim@dropnumber.com <mailto:tim@dropnumber.com>> wrote:
> 
>      >
>      > See, this just goes to show how little I know about the IETF.  I guess someone might have to read 8710 RFCs to get to that one.  I'm still in the four thousands.
>      >
>      > --
>      >
> 
> 
>     But back to my point, We All deserve to know who the accuser is.  It's only fair.
> 
> 
> Huh? This isn't a criminal trial and there's no question of witness credibility.
> 
> In any case, given that Lars sent this email, I think it's fair to assume he stands
> behind it. Whether others are in favor or someone suggested it to him seems
> irrelevant and I don't see that BCP 83 requires it that that somehow be documented.

It doesn't. As the IETF Chair during the first two of the three PR Actions
previously approved, I am quite sure of this. BTW, the Last Call being sent
in the name of the IETF Chair doesn't rely indicate personal belief either.
It presumably reflects the facts that the IESG agreed to the Last Call and
that the IETF Chair is also the IESG Chair.

The fact that the IETF Chair sent the Last Call exposes him to quite a
bit of accusatory email, but it's misplaced. The same will go for the
message announcing the IESG's decision at the end of the Last Call.

As has already been implied, if one doesn't like BCP 83, blaming the
IESG for following BCP 83 is off topic for this list. There is a well
known method for changing BCP 83, which is also off topic for this list.

Regards
     Brian

v2.12.3 | Report a Bug | By Email