Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Against Dan Harkins

Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com> Tue, 04 October 2022 23:01 UTC

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From: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2022 19:01:25 -0400
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To: Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>
Cc: last-call@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Against Dan Harkins
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I think there is no point in continuing to engage in discussion here. It’s
pretty clear what the consensus is. Its pretty clear that Keith will reply
to each message here. Keith is one person. I expect that the IESG will
count his hundred messages as a single objection, not a hundred. I
appreciate that he wants to participate in this decision, and he has a
right to do so. But we don’t need to argue with him—the IESG knows how to
evaluate consensus, and our continued engagement should not affect this
process.

Op di 4 okt. 2022 om 16:37 schreef Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>

> On 10/4/22 16:06, Tom Beecher wrote:
>
> and that many of Dan's
>> supposedly-offending posts were his reactions to what he perceived as
>> personal attacks on himself or on the community.
>>
>
> This feels like a problematic position to me. It seems like you are saying
> that as long as someone *perceives* a comment to be a personal "attack",
> they should be afforded complete license to respond in any manner they so
> choose, without repercussion. This feels like a wordier version of "Well he
> started it."
>
> Please correct me if I am misconstruing your position here.
>
> I certainly acknowledge the potential problem.   But it's also problematic
> to say "it's okay for IESG to attack people, or to amplify people who
> insult/attack the IETF community, but not okay for people to respond."
>
> In other words, who gets to get away with being a bully?
>
> Really I think everybody has an obligation to try to keep from adding
> energy to such feedback loops.  But community leaders (especially IESG but
> also others in authority) have an even greater obligation to do that than
> ordinary participants, because the potential for harm is greater if someone
> in power is adding fuel to the fire.
>
> Keith
>
>
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