Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Against Dan Harkins]

Leif Johansson <> Mon, 10 October 2022 06:49 UTC

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From: Leif Johansson <>
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Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2022 12:34:07 +0545
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Cc: Adam Roach <>, Eliot Lear <>,, IETF Chair <>
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To: Stephen Farrell <>
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Subject: Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Against Dan Harkins]
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> 2 okt. 2022 kl. 20:13 skrev Stephen Farrell <>:
> On this aspect...
>> On 02/10/2022 10:12, Adam Roach wrote:
>> Oh, definitely. I could name a few additional episodes from my own recollection, but those aren't really what I'm referencing in my previous message. What I'm seeing -- and this is admittedly subjective because I have neither the time nor energy to quantify it -- is an increase in /frequency/ of such events, and an increase in the number of specific individuals who choose to participate in such a fashion as a matter of course, rather than simply when passions run high. To be clear, it's not good in either case; but it's the /routine/ toxicity that makes working here such a uniquely unpleasant experience nowadays.
> I wonder if there's any less subjective metric that could be
> applied to mailing list archives?
> Reason to ask: I don't share Adam's perception that toxic
> posts on IETF lists are more frequent these days - if I had
> to guess I'd say those, and other rudenesses, are notably
> less frequent compared to a decade or two ago.
> I wonder if there's a correlation between such perceptions
> and the extent to which people partake in the usual online
> social networks that are reputedly quite toxic? I don't have
> accounts on any of those myself but wouldn't be surprised if
> perceptions of email traffic were affected by postings by the
> same folk, or different folk on similar topics, seen in other
> fora.

I agree.