Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Against Dan Harkins]

Kjetil Torgrim Homme <> Tue, 04 October 2022 21:44 UTC

Return-Path: <>
Received: from localhost (localhost []) by (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFC05C1524AB for <>; Tue, 4 Oct 2022 14:44:13 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.008
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.008 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key)
Received: from ([]) by localhost ( []) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ABkjO3JwtBPj for <>; Tue, 4 Oct 2022 14:44:09 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ( [IPv6:2001:700:100:8210::76]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 08710C14CE2B for <>; Tue, 4 Oct 2022 14:44:07 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed;; s=key2103; h=MIME-Version:Date:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type: References:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:From:Subject:Message-ID:Sender:Reply-To: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=jpPZkd4eKbRDcvUMzDAtkeuaRqcfkFplPM/AzuC5huo=; b=IJEBnga8vcZhBD/LpGYs5GFib7 deA7ZhthwGDSR0mLOBvJVUhlSNWhOGucP608UQeZzUyaLzNvkwAfehZV+ZGTWYnXyx+TQumg9XIQJ fOUpkNbCOuRZLWwFXKxyT1XQ/VzJMqDqYRZvJRnWBJnXSQmcoywZ9GqzoPrFzb/NXsbwkJSTJGFIu 770BZkQZ3DGOSkRcQTZP7goJ1lfuYIMpZdFUUaV4PIA6lXtznuQLL0yFaaoQLzAcmcVtNkc6Y23Ck stawEeQPdwvwiwBgcBzZZ1WmWvnSSrSPBea8WVP4MA/OEk4WDnnlPAimWg+RLsr/dvcfmiHnxAQj+ WCeJQpbA==;
Received: from ([]) by with esmtps (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.95) (envelope-from <>) id 1ofpho-00C2tQ-Qi; Tue, 04 Oct 2022 23:44:00 +0200
Received: from ([] by with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) user kjetilho (Exim 4.95) (envelope-from <>) id 1ofpho-000EEI-Bw; Tue, 04 Oct 2022 23:44:00 +0200
Message-ID: <>
From: Kjetil Torgrim Homme <>
To: Brian E Carpenter <>, Toerless Eckert <>
In-Reply-To: <>
References: <> <> <> <> <> <> <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2022 23:42:58 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Evolution 3.44.4 (3.44.4-1.fc36)
X-UiO-SPF-Received: Received-SPF: neutral ( is neither permitted nor denied by domain of client-ip=;;;
X-UiO-Spam-info: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-5.0, required=5.0, autolearn=disabled, UIO_MAIL_IS_INTERNAL=-5)
X-UiO-Scanned: F916689E7D917ECC0CC3305A909334DFFEAF9F8A
Archived-At: <>
Subject: Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Against Dan Harkins]
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF Last Calls <>
List-Unsubscribe: <>, <>
List-Archive: <>
List-Post: <>
List-Help: <>
List-Subscribe: <>, <>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2022 21:44:13 -0000

ty. den 04. 10. 2022 klokka 09.00 (+1300) skreiv Brian E Carpenter:
> On 04-Oct-22 08:04, Toerless Eckert wrote:
> ...
> > - There is no clear explicit list of what is in evidence, instead we are asked to find that
> >    evidence ourselves from long mailing lists, not knowing how far back judgements where made.
> Huh? The Last Call messages includes an explicit list of example messages, which in my opinion are sufficient on their own.

In that case I will submit an emphatic "no support" to the motion.  I
have read these messages, as well as refreshing on the entirety of the 
thread on "IESG Statement On Oppressive or Exclusionary Language".

Nadim Kobeissi summed it up well in

His concluding remark from that message

> This entire topic is harmful to the IETF’s collective psychology and
> its ability to collaborate. The IESG should follow its mandate and
> stop sowing discord among IETF members with these unnecessary,
> tribalistic and mentally troubled topics. This discussion as a whole
> has been nothing but a net harm to the IETF, and is causing
> quantifiable damage to the ability of its members to work together to
> produce a more performant, secure and indeed inclusive Internet.

This BCP is just one more step towards this splintering.

venleg helsing,
Kjetil T.