Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Against Dan Harkins]

Dan Harkins <> Tue, 11 October 2022 03:43 UTC

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Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2022 20:43:20 -0700
From: Dan Harkins <>
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To: Paul Wouters <>
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Subject: Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Against Dan Harkins]
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   Hi Paul,

   Since you're sending me email from this account I assume that
you do not reject responses from me to this account as you do/did
from your other account. It would be very inappropriate for you,
as an IESG member, to send mail to someone that you prevent from

On 10/10/22 6:45 PM, Paul Wouters wrote:
> On Oct 3, 2022, at 19:14, Dan Harkins <> wrote:
>>    Well draft-knodel-terminology has repeatedly referred to me as
>> someone who promoted racism in the Internet community and that
>> is borderline libelous so I think Paul's complaint is small beer.
> paul.wouters@thinkpad:~$ for i in `seq -w 0 10`; do curl --silent${i}.txt |egrep -i harkins; done
> paul.wouters@thinkpad:~$
> Can you explain how that draft referred to you in a way that is “borderline libellous”, as no version ever seemed to have contained your name?

   And hence the limitations of grepping the draft versus reading the

-07 said, without any evidence whatsoever:

   "The racist behavior in the community that has
    surfaced as a result of this larger debate among technologists (see
    for example
    intersectional-dots-00 and
    draft-les-white-tls-preferred-pronouns-00 ) reportedly pushed away
    participants and observers [Conger]."

After complaints, -08 said, again without any evidence whatsoever:

   "There is harm in protracted discussion about the validity of the
    experience of IETF participants with exclusionary terminology [sic]
    because it invalidates this people's [sic] experiences. Behavior
    that, some of which labeled IESG as racist and disrepectful [sic]
    and therefore removed [White1] [White2] surfaced in the community
    as a result of his larger debate among technologists pushed away
    participants and observers [Conger]. This illustrates the need to,
    as Graves is cited above as saying, continue to raise awareness
    within our community for eventual, lasting change on the continued
    front of struggle against the racists amongst us."

(Note that [Conger] never said what they claimed it said.)

And who are the "racists amongst us" that need to be struggled against?
Well, it's who wrote the 2 April Fools drafts which the authors took as
serious proposals in order to gin up a racist environment in the IETF.

  A statement doesn't necessarily need to *name* a person as long as a
reasonable person would understand the statement as referring to him or
her. And it is my contention that a reasonable person who is tangentially
familiar with the IETF would understand either -07 or -08 as referring
to me. I mean, who do you think wrote [White1] and [White2] which the
draft says is behavior that pushed away technologists and is an
illustration of the need to struggle against the racists amongst us?
Who are these racists amongst us? Well, it's pretty clear.

   Now compare that to the explicit mention of you by one of those drafts.
It wished to thank you for your "public demonstration of courage by denying
an audience to haters and white supremacists." Yet you are very proud of
this public demonstration (you unsubscribing from the general ietf list).
So what's the issue?


"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to
escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius