Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Against Dan Harkins
Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com> Tue, 04 October 2022 04:52 UTC
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Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2022 00:52:06 -0400
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To: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>, Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>, "Murray S. Kucherawy" <superuser@gmail.com>
Cc: Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com>, Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>, last-call@ietf.org
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From: Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>
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Subject: Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Against Dan Harkins
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On 10/3/22 18:22, John C Klensin wrote: > Brian, while I agree about the "pattern of behavior" my > understanding of the BCP, Marshall's intent at the time, and > what we have done since, Dan (or anyone else similarly > sanctioned) could participate on other mailing lists and in > other activities but only as long as the maintainers of those > lists felt his behavior was appropriate to their work and either > represented a change of behavior from the behaviors cited in the > PR-action proposal. If they concluded they were seeing the > same patterns of disruption-causing behavior that caused the > PR-action for the IETF list and other lists, they could ban him > there too and do so without further warnings, etc. John, I don't intend to single you or this message out specifically, but I'm starting to be uneasy about an insistence from several people on prohibiting "disruption-causing behavior" along with the vagueness inherent in that term. I certainly believe that one should avoid insults, accusations of malice, and other inflammatory statements that essentially demand a defensive response that is likely to derail productive discussion. And yet, such interpretations and reactions often result from genuine misunderstandings rather than any intention of insult or malice. A quick clarification or apology usually suffices to avoid further derailment, but it doesn't always work. I fear, for example, that some people consider it "disruptive" to merely express an unpopular opinion, or an opinion that conflicts with one that some people consider sacred or unquestionable, or perhaps only seeking to clarify one's opinion or its relationship to others' opinions. I've received some private replies to this thread accusing me of such disruption because I'm "in the rough" (their words), as if I have an obligation to be silent just because several other people have expressed support for this PR. Not only do I believe it's not wrong to express an unpopular opinion (indeed, sometimes it's an obligation), consideration of divergent and outlying opinions is fundamentally necessary to establishing even a rough consensus. If such opinions are suppressed due to either rules or social pressure, there's no real consensus, only the illusion of consensus. And the outlying opinions are often useful to consider when gauging the degree of consensus reached. I have sometimes been accused of endlessly repeating the same argument, when I was actually trying to refine and clarify the argument, attempting to improve it over time based on feedback. That's exactly what you do when trying to build consensus, but some people seem to presume that they get to decide quickly which opinions might eventually win consensus versus which opinions won't. We all have opinions about that, I suspect, but not all of us think we have the right to use those opinions to dictate others' behavior. It's hard to avoid the impression sometimes that some people want to silence opinions with which they disagree, or perhaps silence persons whom they consider bad actors, without actually bothering to try to understand those people's opinions. Or to put it more charitably, attention is a precious quantity and our processes require a lot of it. BCP83 itself says: > For example, if a working group is unable to reach consensus, this is > an acceptable, albeit unfortunate, outcome; however, if that working > group fails to achieve consensus because it is being continuously > disrupted, then the disruption constitutes an abuse of the > consensus-driven process./Interactions of this type are fundamentally different from "the lone > voice of dissent" in which a participant expresses a view that is > discussed but does not achieve consensus. In other words, individual > bad faith should not trump community goodwill./ (emphasis mine) It's not bad faith to disagree. It is not bad faith to try to clarify one's position or contrast it with others' positions in an effort to find common ground. It /is/ bad faith to try to keep a group from coming to a conclusion (rough consensus or otherwise) by endlessly repeating points that had already been raised repeatedly, without providing new information or insight that might be useful in developing a consensus. It is bad faith to attack everyone, or the opinion of everyone, who lends support to an emerging conclusion that's not the one you want. It is especially bad faith to delay or hamper a working group because its work, while sound, threatens to harm one's employer's products or market position. (And anyone who has been around here for a while has seen it happen.) It is also bad faith to repeatedly make personal accusations against a contributor in an effort to distract from the technical points being discussed. (That includes, BTW, accusations of acting in bad faith.) It's even bad faith to amplify one or more divergent opinions in a deliberate attempt to delay or prevent consensus. There are lots of kinds of bad faith, but it's hard to reliably tell when someone is acting in bad faith. (As this discussion relates to this Last Call, it appears to me that several of Dan's messages were reacting to inflammatory messages from others, and Dan is being blamed for responding to them. It's harder to establish that the messages being responded to were "disruption-causing behavior", but to some degree that depends on how you define it and how you interpret those messages.) I also think that even under the best of conditions, convergence often takes time and requires patience, and is more aided by thoughtful responses (which often take time) than by quick ones. A disturbing trend that I see is people insisting that speakers recognize what they call "consensus" very quickly, without allowing time for more thoughtful views to emerge, or for a variety of views to converge. I wonder if we'd be more productive if we didn't try to resolve everything in a hurry. Keith
- [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Against D… IETF Chair
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… David Schinazi
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Sander Steffann
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Richard Barnes
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Tim Bray
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Mark Nottingham
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Martin Thomson
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… John C Klensin
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… lloydwood@users.sourceforge.net
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Timothy Mcsweeney
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Joel Halpern
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… David Schinazi
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Salz, Rich
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Salz, Rich
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Timothy Mcsweeney
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… David Schinazi
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Timothy Mcsweeney
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Lloyd W
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Adam Roach
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Dan Harkins
- [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call: BCP… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Adam Roach
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Loganaden Velvindron
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… John C Klensin
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… John C Klensin
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Joel Halpern
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… John C Klensin
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Tim Bray
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Adam Roach
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… John C Klensin
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Adam Roach
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Adam Roach
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Timothy Mcsweeney
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Bless, Roland (TM)
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Alissa Cooper
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… John Scudder
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… John C Klensin
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Lloyd W
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Paul Wouters
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Tim Bray
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Ross Finlayson
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Paul Wouters
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… John C Klensin
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Bron Gondwana
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Timothy Mcsweeney
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Bron Gondwana
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Timothy Mcsweeney
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… John C Klensin
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Timothy Mcsweeney
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Bron Gondwana
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Stuart Cheshire
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Adam Roach
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Bless, Roland (TM)
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Tom Beecher
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Kjetil Torgrim Homme
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Lloyd W
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Timothy Mcsweeney
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… lloyd.wood@yahoo.co.uk
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Adam Roach
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… lloydwood@users.sourceforge.net
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Lloyd W
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Ben Campbell
- [Last-Call] Mail Archive Redirection (was Re: OT:… Adam Roach
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Christian Huitema
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Ben Campbell
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Lloyd W
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Tim Bray
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Adam Roach
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Kjetil Torgrim Homme
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… tom petch
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Colin Perkins
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Colin Perkins
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 S Moonesamy
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Timothy Mcsweeney
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Joel Halpern
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Bron Gondwana
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Bless, Roland (TM)
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Kjetil Torgrim Homme
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Bless, Roland (TM)
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Timothy Mcsweeney
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Timothy Mcsweeney
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Timothy Mcsweeney
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Bless, Roland (TM)
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- [Last-Call] Question for the IESG (was: Last Call… John C Klensin
- Re: [Last-Call] Question for the IESG (was: Last … Card, Stu
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Jay Daley
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… John C Klensin
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Richard Barnes
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- [Last-Call] Professional organization? [was Re: L… Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Jay Daley
- Re: [Last-Call] Professional organization? [was R… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Last-Call] Professional organization? [was R… Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Theodore Ts'o
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Joel Halpern
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… John C Klensin
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Professional organization? [was R… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Theodore Ts'o
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Timothy Mcsweeney
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Timothy Mcsweeney
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Jay Daley
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Lloyd W
- Re: [Last-Call] Professional organization? [was R… Laurence Lundblade
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Professional organization? [was R… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Leif Johansson
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Lloyd W
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Richard Barnes
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Paul Wouters
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… opens
- Re: [Last-Call] Question for the IESG S Moonesamy
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Paul Wouters
- Re: [Last-Call] Question for the IESG John C Klensin
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Salz, Rich
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Question for the IESG Ted Lemon
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Lloyd W
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Question for the IESG John C Klensin
- Re: [Last-Call] Question for the IESG Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… lloydwood@users.sourceforge.net
- Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call:… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] Fwd: OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last … Paul Wouters
- Re: [Last-Call] Question for the IESG (was: Last … Lars Eggert
- Re: [Last-Call] Fwd: OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last … Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] Question for the IESG (was: Last … John C Klensin
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Lloyd W
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Tim Bray
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Timothy Mcsweeney
- [Last-Call] Global whitelist was Re: Last Call: B… Lloyd W
- Re: [Last-Call] Global whitelist was Re: Last Cal… Paul Wouters
- Re: [Last-Call] Global whitelist was Re: Last Cal… Timothy Mcsweeney
- [Last-Call] Conway's Law, Was: Global whitelist w… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Last-Call] Global whitelist was Re: Last Cal… Paul Wouters
- Re: [Last-Call] Global whitelist was Re: Last Cal… Timothy Mcsweeney
- Re: [Last-Call] Global whitelist was Re: Last Cal… Card, Stu
- Re: [Last-Call] Global whitelist was Re: Last Cal… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] Global whitelist was Re: Last Cal… Bron Gondwana
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Valery Smyslov
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Timothy Mcsweeney
- [Last-Call] Consensus call (was: Other stuff) Pete Resnick
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… heasley
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Last-Call] Consensus call (was: Other stuff) Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Last-Call] Consensus call (was: Other stuff) Pete Resnick
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action [snip] Rene Struik
- [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BCP 83… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BC… Tim Bray
- Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BC… Melinda Shore
- Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BC… Adam Roach
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Valery Smyslov
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Responsibility to whom? (was Consensu… Ted Hardie
- Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BC… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BC… Lloyd W
- Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Again… Vittorio Bertola
- [Last-Call] On satire, sarcasm, etc (was: Re: Las… Bron Gondwana
- Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BC… John C Klensin
- Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BC… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Last-Call] On satire, sarcasm, etc (was: Re:… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BC… Toerless Eckert
- [Last-Call] ESL (digression): Re: On satire, sarc… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BC… Pete Resnick
- Re: [Last-Call] On satire, sarcasm, etc (was: Re:… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Last-Call] On satire, sarcasm, etc (was: Re:… Bless, Roland (TM)
- Re: [Last-Call] On satire, sarcasm, etc (was: Re:… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] On satire, sarcasm, etc (was: Re:… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] On satire, sarcasm, etc (was: Re:… Bless, Roland (TM)
- Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BC… John C Klensin
- Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BC… Pete Resnick
- Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BC… Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BC… no noneee
- Re: [Last-Call] On satire, sarcasm, etc (was: Re:… Lloyd W
- Re: [Last-Call] On satire, sarcasm, etc (was: Re:… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] On satire, sarcasm, etc (was: Re:… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BC… John C Klensin
- Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BC… Adam Roach
- Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BC… John C Klensin
- Re: [Last-Call] On satire, sarcasm, etc (was: Re:… Lloyd W
- Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BC… Adam Roach
- Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BC… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BC… Lloyd W
- Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BC… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BC… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BC… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BC… Keith Moore
- Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BC… Pete Resnick
- Re: [Last-Call] Change of position: Last Call: BC… John C Klensin