Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Against Dan Harkins]

Dan Harkins <> Tue, 11 October 2022 18:00 UTC

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Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2022 11:00:15 -0700
From: Dan Harkins <>
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Subject: Re: [Last-Call] OT: change BCP 83 [Re: Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Against Dan Harkins]
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On 10/11/22 10:22 AM, Keith Moore wrote:
> On 10/11/22 12:05, Paul Wouters wrote:
>> The issue is that I felt bullied off the mailinglist by 
>> you and a few others. 
> Well, if we're going to talk about who has been bullied by whom, and 
> supply justification for such claims, we might be here a long time.
> I wonder what people even mean by the term "bullied" these days.  When 
> I was a kid, a bully was someone who used violence or a threat of 
> violence to attack less powerful people in order to build him/her-self up.
> Bullies always targeted people who were less powerful than themselves, 
> and generally also people who didn't have many friends who would come 
> to their aid.
> These days I have the impression that people think they're being 
> bullied merely because they're subject to criticism. That's not what 
> the word used to mean

   Yea, several years ago people started talking about how "speech is 
and there wasn't enough pushback. So now we have people talking about
being "bullied" from critical speech. Having gotten punched in the face 
I can testify that speech is not violence. When I was a kid the rhyme 
was "sticks
and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me."

   You make a good point about power. Bullies target the less powerful. So
it's interesting that I, an individual contributor with no formal leadership
role in the IETF, can be called vile names by the IETF Chair and the IETF
Executive Director, people who arguably are much more powerful than me,
and yet I'm the one accused of bullying!


"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to
escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius