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Subject: Re: Request to register "identifier" relation type
From: Ed Summers <ehs@pobox.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAOywMHf5JqQoFXLOi5cuD+HWTxMKu-JcjL_Zp0NWM7wqmBqSbQ@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 12:17:55 -0400
Cc: link-relations <link-relations@ietf.org>,
 Peter Williams <pezra@barelyenough.org>,
 Geoffrey Bilder <gbilder@crossref.org>, Michael Nelson <mln@cs.odu.edu>,
 Simeon Warner <simeon.warner@cornell.edu>, "John A. Kunze" <jak@ucop.edu>
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To: Herbert Van de Sompel <hvdsomp@gmail.com>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/link-relations/c2A1Nc8N7kNRadWLpz2o2qxWWd8>
Precedence: list

Hi Herbert,

> On Aug 9, 2017, at 10:35 AM, Herbert Van de Sompel <hvdsomp@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>=20
> * On August 5, Ed Summers posted a question regarding applying =
"bookmark" to <link> to the WHATWG list, see =
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-whatwg-archive/2017Aug/0001.ht=
ml. There are no responses to this post, so far.

There have been a few responses if you look at the list of emails for =
August:

    https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-whatwg-archive/2017Aug/

> * On August 9, Ed Summer posted a similar question to WHATWG/HTML =
GitHub, see https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/2899. There is a =
reaction from @annevk who (1) speculates that the reason "bookmark" is =
not to be used with <link> might be in order not to overlap with =
"canonical" (2) suggests the use of "canonical" :-)=20

Yes, canonical seems to be the relation that most people are reaching =
for initially. I did myself on reading your I-D. The fact that seasoned =
hands like Kevin Marks and Anne van Kesteren are as well says something.

> * Michael Nelson has further explored "bookmark" and has confirmed =
that there effectively is a reason for not allowing "bookmark" in =
<link>. It is related to its target use case: surfacing a link for =
content contained in a *part* of a page. Hence, Michael concludes that =
making "bookmark" usable with <link> will most likely not happen. =
@annevk's GitHub response does not seem to contradict that. Michael =
based his findings on studying =
http://tantek.com/log/2002/11.html#L20021128t1352 and =
https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/links.html#link-type-bookmark. He =
may write another blog post about this, but, for now, here's how he =
explained on Twitter https://twitter.com/i/moments/895081563653902336

Yes, it looks like that's probably where things will sit. As Anne =
indicated it's likely that rel=3Dbookmark cannot be used with <link> =
because of perceived confusion it would cause with canonical. The =
semantics of parts of pages vs the page itself don't seem terribly =
significant to me from an implementation perspective. Unfortunately =
'identifier' will also probably cause some confusion as well. As systems =
that rely on 'identifier' get developed that will be something for them =
to deal with.

Thanks for considering all the questions and tracking the conversation =
over on the WHATWG list. It speaks to the spirit of what you all are =
trying to achieve with this I-D.

//Ed=