From nobody Wed Nov 30 22:44:27 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49E31C1522C3 for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2022 22:44:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.203 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.203 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=0.1, MIME_HTML_ONLY_MULTI=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, MPART_ALT_DIFF=0.79, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JCc20S4CiVsX for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2022 22:44:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wm1-x336.google.com (mail-wm1-x336.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::336]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 84A53C14CE57 for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2022 22:44:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wm1-x336.google.com with SMTP id v124-20020a1cac82000000b003cf7a4ea2caso3125678wme.5 for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2022 22:44:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=to:references:message-id:cc:date:in-reply-to:from:subject :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=BOFr4OOnJl4ZG+9Axo70FF/15dZTZ1Xfv8mpnIyEtdE=; b=PALh/fTy88Shy3sotO36HmAdjMMXutO1LtBPp+m6AXWX6bSf/DyGhBTK5KWGsTJX6+ DHgYLGl8iyCSzVmOnZ61xx7k7YXi5HYKE5JUn6Fzju6EyaL2Wdq6iDYxAY3pfqsmDjU+ E5EvvXOj2PSZUWQyjFByJsXtM76LgfQv+Kb4lwcZ+e/IyQr5ibpbXbut7jKzSp5bYejz Dnf9qEAv+nlhqYZxGnn8kxQd3kWAR2yw6ykwJLQkFD16ijSmxVn4IpjaTzAeyY6YtWZ5 8VYbwFxcPxtdBkdtcZL0rDlUuFYLltchQzDDZdeUFrRZhlvLvLNGJzJhZSWPgkeh+1HM 6LkA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=to:references:message-id:cc:date:in-reply-to:from:subject :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state:from:to :cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=BOFr4OOnJl4ZG+9Axo70FF/15dZTZ1Xfv8mpnIyEtdE=; b=uv4s1YTbV7XkNkAnnEx9O/EUhtofNi1oW96AtXk2HyyN9BnRuBZgdH+ZE81It+TK7L 1nn3gWwYFsxkwyPnNZUV9lGTOFUgAPHmXTG7wFp4LlBRX0meAgU1ttCyopZgR+JqrH4Y W33/qcOxTIq5LXAOMy9RZoHPOYaVdqmQGbLw0eEup0wCFvGXXhLOzxMkOQjClVGUQOK8 zqgWZ8RGAB7nZrS4lyVMvT9LKb1iVH3C4JqwN1sUz49rICtDjTmSOOpCGGYg9aFdmEDH HjG6eWDSlQkbG5HJAc1f9E1ezPEphnhHdaddV/q2i+wJ2+282IDtUrx//DZuGePXglmr 7v6Q== X-Gm-Message-State: ANoB5png6+wjFrduKa1cEayXecyIE4xiYQ3221s21/Ict0FYYCEslq3V bEI1f2T/U/rkbERMfKmLEBcWrGIoXA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA0mqf7EMqIGmK0lMNa0VqzUeJCFI2abLgmXRPNJT1EZnN3c6vk+RPnEAgf7UednPAl3JH0iN6FqOw== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:7318:0:b0:3cf:cb16:f24a with SMTP id d24-20020a1c7318000000b003cfcb16f24amr50038827wmb.182.1669877062086; Wed, 30 Nov 2022 22:44:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpclient.apple ([46.120.74.130]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u15-20020a05600c210f00b003cf7292c553sm4044116wml.13.2022.11.30.22.44.20 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 30 Nov 2022 22:44:21 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-679C18A6-83A3-4DB8-96B4-EFA8603591AB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Sharon In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2022 08:44:19 +0200 Cc: "lisp@ietf.org list" Message-Id: <24682D8D-9900-4E56-8801-0F2D612A7F03@gmail.com> References: To: Dino Farinacci X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (20B101) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [lisp] Fwd: Lisp Portable Edge Multipoint Sockets X-BeenThere: lisp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39 Precedence: list List-Id: List for the discussion of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2022 06:44:26 -0000 --Apple-Mail-679C18A6-83A3-4DB8-96B4-EFA8603591AB Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Maybe terminology will clarify this the bes= t.

Typically EID means address of hosts which can move be= tween network locations.

Instead we want EID to mea= n address of communication objects: mp2p queues and p2mp channels, which can= move between hosts.

This portability supports func= tional distributed programming models and simplified on-path compute aware n= etworking.

On-path awareness becomes important in t= he absence of centralized clouds which hide DNS changes from clients, and co= ntain the unpredictable latency of co-located HTTP redirects. 

These geo-distributed compute conditions are relevant for t= he new AR/VR edge applications, and this specification simplifies the descri= ption of elastically scaling them using LISP.

--szb<= div>Cell: +972.53.2470068
WhatsApp: +1.650.492.0794

On Nov 21, 2022, at 20:33, Dino = Farinacci <farinacci@gmail.com> wrote:

=EF=BB=BFYes, everything you can define t= he better. Even a "socket" since its an overloaded term. Plus you want to de= fine terms based on how the document is going to use them. So defining "EID"= in the context of your document would make the ideas more clear. Like an EI= D in this spec defines an object versus a host.

I don't think there is a standard format for describ= ing the API. Just calls and input and output parameter descriptions you shou= ld include.

As for= eBPF, just describe what filters you are need to use to associate packet fl= ows with an EID. And that this is a local matter and the flows are NOT put i= n the mapping system like it could be for the Multi-Tuple draft.

I am not sure who you are ref= erring to but I know a lot of people that use eBPF. You should google for a l= ist name and propose they review the document and definitely invite them to I= ETF.

Dino

Begin forwarded message:

From: Sharon Barkai <sharon.barkai@getnexar.com>
Subject: Re: Lisp Portable Edge Multipoint Sockets
Date: N= ovember 20, 2022 at 11:30:45 PM PST
Cc: Fabio Maino <= fmaino@cisco.com>, Alb= ert Cabellos <acabello@= ac.upc.edu>, Jordi <jordip@ac.upc.edu>, Alberto Rodriguez-Natal <natal@cisco.com>

Thats all very true!

Could you say this also on the list so we know theres= workgroup interest in developing this?

What a= bout the EID Queue/Channel API ?
Do we have any good existing f= ormat we can adapt/adopt ?

How detailed should b= e the eBPF implementation description, can we engage the eBPF people that ca= me to the last IETF? I think you know one of them .. they want to RFC eBPF i= tself.

--szb
Cell: +972.53.24700= 68
WhatsApp: +1.650.492.0794

On Nov 20, 2022, at 22:51, Dino Farinacci &= lt;farinacci@gmail.com= > wrote:

=EF=BB=BFI think you need a lot mor= e terms defined in your Definition of Terms section. Any reference to a new c= oncept must be defined, even "edge compute IOT".

And you need more on the "how" its done. You have plenty on what it is.
Dino

On Nov 20, 2022, at 7:35 AM, Sharon Barkai <sharon.barkai@getnexar.com= > wrote:


Could you have a= look?
Can make writing other edge application specs simpler..=

<draft-barkai-lisp-pems-00.txt>



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