Re: [Lsr] Moving Forward [Re: Flooding Reduction Draft Redux]

John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net> Fri, 01 February 2019 13:18 UTC

Return-Path: <jdrake@juniper.net>
X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9488C130ED8 for <lsr@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 1 Feb 2019 05:18:22 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -5.253
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.253 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-4.553, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, KHOP_DYNAMIC=2, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=juniper.net
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MYU5nVKQ2BXl for <lsr@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 1 Feb 2019 05:18:20 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com (mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com [208.84.65.16]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5ABDE12DF72 for <lsr@ietf.org>; Fri, 1 Feb 2019 05:18:20 -0800 (PST)
Received: from pps.filterd (m0108157.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x11DHA19032153; Fri, 1 Feb 2019 05:18:18 -0800
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=juniper.net; h=from : to : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=PPS1017; bh=cAFSeGAkhTjU/ESPw8SXHF/MXDFUy9FLn92ej5qD+mU=; b=fbMmvlRV2pIg7FiUBti+o4cM5xS8n871IaSwxCpQj2NMQ3qzBvvHW4TOVeHJ9ZYf/RtK GsaYiZpyvSYW6hZYwWoT+EhPGilNRqLidKw8M1ItDAF9wjcq4tnHS40JuTPw3n+8xE01 d18duZadG72nVmKJ31sbmLNHx2unl2LFANnIfGbhMeujqhXEpgCpDd6Fhle8TTxh67hW ueVuPHQ0L5Al8ezG6oMlYC8JMw7Hb25driVA5pjoaPokyM7Tp5T7TAiZoT3h93SEt9kR 2EDidQCVc9ysLnauJuxrIW/Id5fHdDJZME2Zb5g2QxZ1xSfaI8Ojt0D94+2yUwYoWUAL Dg==
Received: from nam01-bn3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn3nam01lp2057.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.33.57]) by mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 2qck4v8apf-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Fri, 01 Feb 2019 05:18:18 -0800
Received: from BYAPR05MB5029.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (20.177.230.211) by BYAPR05MB4278.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (52.135.202.11) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1580.13; Fri, 1 Feb 2019 13:18:16 +0000
Received: from BYAPR05MB5029.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::89d5:b0d4:7697:6093]) by BYAPR05MB5029.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::89d5:b0d4:7697:6093%3]) with mapi id 15.20.1580.017; Fri, 1 Feb 2019 13:18:16 +0000
From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Moving Forward [Re: Flooding Reduction Draft Redux]
Thread-Index: AQHUuilQ2AhEojvKJEO+J5oQ2yEy9KXK7KtA
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2019 13:18:16 +0000
Message-ID: <BYAPR05MB502910AA32E9BDB958AA8B3BC7920@BYAPR05MB5029.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <sa65zu31zqk.fsf@chopps.org> <sa64l9n1yqy.fsf@chopps.org>
In-Reply-To: <sa64l9n1yqy.fsf@chopps.org>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
dlp-product: dlpe-windows
dlp-version: 11.1.100.23
dlp-reaction: no-action
x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.13]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; BYAPR05MB4278; 6:oI+O4jRsipFkH0eqJoAOIvaqp0/6JUCtFEMHlipEC3y7ZI0DrnRHT+7kQd2I0L3dinI3IwOUYOszrdPOyxY2ENWUSBgLchpe9DXXo7kGAuYLR7HwUQ5slDxg1hPSLgjejjVwHxsu4KTvqkHpg+c+ZAxk1EUhC4iQwxln17c7uaDcilGdAOh9EVShsVHeZ7jcINEtaaYkBqiotWjbb6/pUJezPh+O7xGcrMbWiCKskSEfpuqutpUDa7K3KgU0ZvZYE7pSw9/XMUFETMpsp4vVNs6xLd4+6EMqRNVV6A/vVFH3oitlAQd+HKoYpbWs33exks4jG/5kzoLARoTNqpA4RRH2m9/vSndD4Ett2Nx/GcHcmqcoLAeRf03jNeiaFiVYuy36I68OhxCJ81k3rPIURkZNvfFSz1zV0R9Yfvayk5hSppPtjwL2c3V5yW9ylG0qlGvLdLdr+V5Ks663IdB5Xw==; 5:3Ny4TXlIls7S/rrp7uGDiGbFHauw2v8SioawAOnGW/KWFIMECZaOmeUgl7iGgfCyQGk/NG1uLeKDp4THi8vZROwVjw/GVhEhxir6opBTAwUyxPWeR4wwWatIhJyZ/JonBZTlKpbMLzeDNWFI+B9eMDp461XF+tsjQLX0XjLzh3PDWKj3Xs/yxb6Jfv04sBb/jP+ZG5dghwtmmoVDLc+FGw==; 7:BxAdUR2vusCzcNvhT8WknQQ1il4XNoZ0/2nYXHbQP370rREXFrlENtDtV2cAFPXHw/8JTaoCkrlaKHfmkWVSjRD2j0d3fsQ0vaPTjOlEidxnsRyACZ+KTE7aJdXxqfKDfXkCElH1xaTLCKfnUzC6Lg==
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 7a833205-8ae0-44d4-436b-08d68847ba3c
x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(2390118)(7020095)(4652040)(8989299)(4534185)(4627221)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(8990200)(5600110)(711020)(4605077)(4618075)(2017052603328)(7153060)(7193020); SRVR:BYAPR05MB4278;
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BYAPR05MB4278:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <BYAPR05MB42787BEAE82E12E7A93F0D7DC7920@BYAPR05MB4278.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
x-forefront-prvs: 09352FD734
x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(39860400002)(346002)(396003)(366004)(136003)(376002)(13464003)(189003)(199004)(55674003)(446003)(6436002)(256004)(110136005)(966005)(316002)(55016002)(6246003)(66066001)(478600001)(476003)(8936002)(8676002)(25786009)(19627235002)(81166006)(14454004)(7736002)(81156014)(53936002)(2906002)(74316002)(486006)(86362001)(305945005)(97736004)(106356001)(6306002)(105586002)(76176011)(68736007)(99286004)(9686003)(3846002)(102836004)(6116002)(53546011)(6506007)(7696005)(33656002)(26005)(71200400001)(71190400001)(186003)(11346002)(2501003)(229853002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BYAPR05MB4278; H:BYAPR05MB5029.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1;
received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: juniper.net does not designate permitted sender hosts)
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: fy7nKUNQQskHvDT6EOtlTbxNzy+sEQw69Islb5KIMZmKvZet8KJLusmnrJ+7bb59YqYloJOE6HVVEqCQsqOGlieCQ/G56U81NbbGeM1HoB2UJdsIIMDWaxJ+/6KOu6891dtyYqrEm1Qh8SZAzsJC350eNl/WZTCf42M+75ll+qzKpxFRZyjVQZLK9J193wikrhyLrEB8RwbqLJn6G1zm3TpJNjKAJ2DDFESyb1Eml3PXNDdoHQNNXpNL4Oy2Vm2tz2f9lGk8Xan2oPG7FU2S7GvlG9OIwRfpq3Ql7jBvHuTaGjp84i87l5FlRxRrrajQB2KQrABUkw9NhqguJk8Po41tImrZBenRd8l/IRIEKiFI0jhxVbhI76wYoemlRDE5ISajkKNdQhNLFHE3lCEtUBl8/p/wTx47Hq1w/b4QEZc=
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 7a833205-8ae0-44d4-436b-08d68847ba3c
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 01 Feb 2019 13:18:16.6730 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR05MB4278
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2019-02-01_09:, , signatures=0
X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1810050000 definitions=main-1902010101
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/y2-LoDJT8-GRJqBmdl5RszPH2ps>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Moving Forward [Re: Flooding Reduction Draft Redux]
X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group <lsr.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/lsr>, <mailto:lsr-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/lsr/>
List-Post: <mailto:lsr@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:lsr-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr>, <mailto:lsr-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2019 13:18:22 -0000

Chris & Acee,

This looks fine to me.

Yours Irrespectively,

John

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org>; On Behalf Of Christian Hopps
> Sent: Friday, February 1, 2019 7:26 AM
> To: lsr@ietf.org
> Cc: chopps@chopps.org
> Subject: [Lsr] Moving Forward [Re: Flooding Reduction Draft Redux]
> 
> 
> Summary of where we are at with dynamic flooding reduction:
> 
>  - We have a well written original work that came first and described the
> problems as well as a TLVs to allow for a centralized solution (draft-li-dyanmic-
> flooding). We do not need to standardize the centralized algorithm.
> 
>  - A small change to this work allowed for distributed algorithms and for outside
> work on distributed algorithms to continue in parallel.
> 
>  - We have another original work that started primarily as a distributed algorithm
>    (draft-cc-ospf-flooding-reduction)
> 
>  - Finally we also have:
>    - Cross-pollination of ideas.
>    - Failed attempts at merging.
>    - An authors list "Arms-Race".
> 
> Moving forward:
> 
> - During IETF 103 I proposed we have no conflict if we:
> 
>    1) adopt draft-li-lsr-dyanmic-flooding as the base WG document.
>    2) have authors of draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction work on a distributed
> algorithm as they started with.
> 
> - Acee agreed during the meeting (as chair) that this was the best way forward.
> We had some agreement form the floor as well.
> 
> - Any good ideas regarding the distribution of a centralized topology can be
> debated and added (with appropriate attribution) to the base document after we
> adopt one.
> 
> - This is what happens when we adopt a document as WG work, we work on it.
> 
> - The original authors of the distributed solution can continue to work on their
> distributed algorithm in a separate document which would also need
> standardization.
> 
> Does anyone see a serious problem with this path forward?
> 
> Thanks,
> Chris & Acee.
> LSR Chairs.
> 
> Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>; writes:
> 
> > We've had the authors of the individual conflicting drafts take a shot at
> merging their work.
> >
> >    This has failed.
> >
> > Here is the full history (which I also summarized during IETF103 as well). I will
> send a second email discussing this.
> >
> > - Jan 2, 2018 Publication: draft-li-dynamic-flooding and drfat-li-dynamic-
> flooding-isis
> >   published centralized solution.
> >
> > - Mar 5, 2018 Publication: draft-cc-isis-flooding-reduction and draft-cc-ospf-
> flooding-reduction
> >   published distributed solution.
> >   - mention of centralized solution asserting it is not good choice.
> >
> > - IETF 101 (Mar 2018)
> >   - Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHmT4ytMn4w&list=PLC86T-
> 6ZTP5j_HaBNdfPbgxGIp22cnaWS
> >   - Minutes: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/101/materials/minutes-101-
> lsr-00
> >   - draft-li-dynamic-flooding-02 presented (1 author). at IETF 101
> >     - Generally well received.
> >   - draft-cc-ospf-flooding-reduction-00 (4 authors) presented.
> >     - Serious problems immediately found during presentation -- not fully baked.
> >
> > - Mar 18, 2018 draft-li-dynamic-flooding-03 published (1 author)
> > - Mar 27, 2018 draft-li-dynamic-flooding-04 published (1 author)
> > - Apr 20, 2018 draft-cc-ospf-flooding-reduction-01 revised
> > - Jun 28, 2018 draft-li-dynamic-flooding-05 published (2 authors)
> >   - *SMALL CHANGE TO SUPPORT DISTRIBUTED ALGORITHM*.
> >   - Does not specify distributed algorithm only how to indicate one in use, small
> change.
> >
> > - Jul 2, 2018 draft-cc-ospf-flooding-reduction-02 published
> >
> > - IETF 102 (Jul 14, 2018)
> >   - draft-li-dynamic-flooding-05 presented.
> >   - draft-cc-ospf-flooding-reduction-02 presented.
> >
> > - Sep 12, 2018 draft-cc-ospf-flooding-reduction-03 (4 authors)
> >   - *LARGE CHANGE ADDS NEW CENTRALIZED SOLUTION*.
> >
> > - Sep 20, 2018 draft-cc-ospf-flooding-reduction-04 (4 authors)
> >
> > - Oct 21, 2018 draft-li-lsr-dynamic-flooding-00 and -01 (5 authors)
> >
> > - IETF 103 (Nov 3, 2018)
> >
> >   - Chairs give direction
> >
> >     - draft-li-lsr-dynamic-flooding-05 having come first, being well written and
> not
> >       specifying a distributed algorithm (merely allowing for one) is the correct
> vehicle
> >       to adopt as a base document.
> >
> >     - Distributed algorithm work (the original basis for draft-cc-ospf-flooding-
> reduction)
> >       should continue as a separate document form the base which would thus
> we have no
> >       conflicts.
> >
> > - In the meantime the authors try and merge work, this fails.
> >
> > - Dec 3, 2018 draft-li-lsr-dynamic-flooding-02 (7 authors)
> >
> > - Dec 10, 2018 draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-00 (4 authors)
> >
> > - Jan 7, 2019  draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-01 (8 authors)