Re: [Lsr] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-lsr-prefix-unreachable-annoucement-05
Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com> Wed, 10 March 2021 11:58 UTC
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References: <22FDE3EA-B5D1-4E4D-B698-1D79173E8637@tony.li> <6E0281D2-7755-499A-B084-CA8472949683@chinatelecom.cn> <D6B0D95F-68AD-4A18-B98C-69835E8B149B@tony.li> <018801d71499$9890feb0$c9b2fc10$@tsinghua.org.cn> <CABNhwV2SpcDcm-s-WkWPpnVLpYB2nZGz2Yv0SfZah+-k=bGx4A@mail.gmail.com> <BFB3CE24-446A-4ADA-96ED-9CF876EA6A00@tony.li> <CAOj+MMGeR4bodbgpPqDCtLZD6XmX6fkjyxLWZAKa4LC2R1tBzg@mail.gmail.com> <ecf2e8b4-fdae-def6-1a29-ec1ae37f5811@cisco.com> <CAOj+MMFSEqVkM62TDAc6yn19Hup+v-9w=kiq_q6dVn39LcOkqQ@mail.gmail.com> <fdf0e62a-21fa-67e9-811d-5aa8749bb077@cisco.com> <CAOj+MMGqab_MSeZuwu0jLpCiDoZrcjnjebScscULsvnJt4_Sgw@mail.gmail.com> <2b2e9a39-ee2d-ab1c-2d59-ff5847c943e8@cisco.com> <CAOj+MMETEOgA_QO0V_k052cu10a2ZVkf8at-1+kut7OQwf=Kug@mail.gmail.com> <14e8038e-338f-599e-3c40-fdaac247fc10@cisco.com> <CAOj+MMF4xdh2TsMWVEmw_qUxxTS-zFbtE4xK8-cL-cw3xmcrgg@mail.gmail.com> <CA+wi2hMfXNV9m2WKapLCT1L9s5odXD+imJU=YXp0SfNPdbcCtQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAOj+MMFXekqgbbyLZz=TjtZ0V_NKM_=MCpjRQv18Vj2OPGJOHw@mail.gmail.com>
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From: Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2021 12:57:55 +0100
Message-ID: <CA+wi2hOcHv1dNCDTOjiiDCQCkx1cKBf97KKgoLRq7cFLA22Lhg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Cc: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>, Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>, Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>, Aijun Wang <wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn>, Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li>, lsr <lsr@ietf.org>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, draft-wang-lsr-prefix-unreachable-annoucement <draft-wang-lsr-prefix-unreachable-annoucement@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-lsr-prefix-unreachable-annoucement-05
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same thing. if you want go multiple hops ZeroMQ you need forwarding already. And if you go one hop it really doesn't matter, it's just FOSE (flooding over something else ;-) -- tony On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 12:52 PM Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote: > > You think Kafka here? > > Nope ... I meant ZeroMQ message bus as underlaying pub-sub transport for > service related info. > > Thx, > R., > > > On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 11:41 AM Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> ? Last time I looked @ it (and it's been a while) Open-R had nothing of >> that sort, it was basically KV playing LSDB (innovative and clever in >> itself). You think Kafka here? Which in turn needs underlying IGP however >> and is nothing but BGP problems in new clothes having looked @ their >> internal architecture and where it's goiing a while ago. >> >> -- tony >> >> On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 11:29 AM Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote: >> >>> Peter, >>> >>> > But suddenly the DOWN event distribution is considered >>> > problematic. Not sure I follow. >>> >>> In routing and IP reachability we use p2mp distribution and flooding as >>> it is required to provide any to any connectivity. >>> >>> Such spray model no longer fits services where not every endpoint >>> participates in all services. >>> >>> So my point is that just because you have transport ready we should not >>> continue to announce neither good nor bad news in spray fashion for >>> services. >>> >>> Sure it works, but it is hardly a good design and sound architecture. >>> >>> It happened to BGP as the convenience of already having TCP sessions >>> between nodes was so great that we loaded loads of stuff to go along basic >>> routing reachability. >>> >>> And now it seems time came to do the same with IGPs :). >>> >>> I think unless we stop and define a real pub-sub messaging protocol >>> (like FB does with open-R) we will continue this. >>> >>> And to me it is like building a tower from the cards ... the higher you >>> go the more likely your entire tower is to collapse. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> R. >>> >>> PS. >>> >>> > with MPLS loopback address of all PEs is advertised everywhere. >>> >>> Is this a feature or a day one design bug later fixed by RFC5283 ? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 9:10 AM Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Robert, >>>> >>>> >>>> On 09/03/2021 19:30, Robert Raszuk wrote: >>>> > Hi Peter, >>>> > >>>> > > Example 1: >>>> > > >>>> > > If session to PE1 goes down, withdraw all RDs received from >>>> such PE. >>>> > >>>> > still dependent on RDs and BGP specific. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > To me this does sound like a feature ... to you I think it was rather >>>> > pejorative. >>>> >>>> not sure I understand your point with "pejorative"... >>>> >>>> There are other ways to provide services outside of BGP - think GRE, >>>> IPsec, etc. The solution should cover them all. >>>> >>>> > >>>> > We want app independent way of >>>> > signaling the reachability loss. At the end that's what IGPs do >>>> without >>>> > a presence of summarization. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Here you go. I suppose you just drafted the first use case for OSPF >>>> > Transport Instance. >>>> >>>> you said it, not me. >>>> >>>> >>>> > >>>> > I suppose you just run new ISIS or OSPF Instance and flood info about >>>> PE >>>> > down events to all other instance nodes (hopefully just PEs and no Ps >>>> as >>>> > such plane would be OTT one). Still you will be flooding this to >>>> 100s >>>> > of PEs which may never need this information at all which I think is >>>> the >>>> > main issue here. Such bad news IMHO should be distributed on a >>>> pub/sub >>>> > basis only. First you subscribe then you get updates ... not get >>>> > everything then keep junk till it get's removed or expires. >>>> >>>> with MPLS loopback address of all PEs is advertised everywhere. So you >>>> keep the state when the remote PE loopback is up and you get a state >>>> withdrawal when the remote PE loopback goes down. >>>> >>>> In Srv6, with summarization we can reduced the amount of UP state to >>>> minimum. But suddenly the DOWN event distribution is considered >>>> problematic. Not sure I follow. >>>> >>>> thanks, >>>> Peter >>>> >>>> > >>>> > Many thx, >>>> > Robert >>>> > >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> Lsr mailing list >>> Lsr@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr >>> >>
- [Lsr] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-lsr-… Gyan Mishra
- Re: [Lsr] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-… Tony Li
- Re: [Lsr] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-… Aijun Wang
- Re: [Lsr] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-… Tony Li
- Re: [Lsr] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-… Acee Lindem (acee)
- Re: [Lsr] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-… Gyan Mishra
- Re: [Lsr] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-… Aijun Wang
- Re: [Lsr] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-… Gyan Mishra
- Re: [Lsr] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-… Aijun Wang
- Re: [Lsr] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-… Tony Li
- Re: [Lsr] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-… Aijun Wang
- Re: [Lsr] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-… Gyan Mishra
- Re: [Lsr] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-… Tony Li
- Re: [Lsr] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-… Tony Li
- Re: [Lsr] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-… Gyan Mishra
- Re: [Lsr] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-… Aijun Wang
- Re: [Lsr] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-… Peter Psenak
- Re: [Lsr] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Lsr] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-… Peter Psenak
- Re: [Lsr] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Lsr] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-… Peter Psenak
- Re: [Lsr] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-… Tony Przygienda
- Re: [Lsr] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Lsr] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-… Peter Psenak
- Re: [Lsr] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Lsr] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-… Peter Psenak
- Re: [Lsr] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Lsr] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-… Peter Psenak
- Re: [Lsr] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-… Tony Przygienda
- Re: [Lsr] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Lsr] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-… Tony Przygienda
- Re: [Lsr] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-… Acee Lindem (acee)
- Re: [Lsr] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-… Shraddha Hegde
- Re: [Lsr] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-… Gyan Mishra
- Re: [Lsr] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-… Acee Lindem (acee)
- Re: [Lsr] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-… Aijun Wang
- Re: [Lsr] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-… Aijun Wang
- Re: [Lsr] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-… Gyan Mishra
- Re: [Lsr] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-… Peter Psenak