Re: [Lsr] Moving Forward [Re: Flooding Reduction Draft Redux]

Tony Li <tony1athome@gmail.com> Thu, 21 February 2019 05:32 UTC

Return-Path: <tony1athome@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0560812D4E6 for <lsr@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 21:32:03 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.999
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vBDODUw969aC for <lsr@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 21:32:00 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-pf1-x42b.google.com (mail-pf1-x42b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::42b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6315D12D4F2 for <lsr@ietf.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 21:32:00 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-pf1-x42b.google.com with SMTP id n22so13180546pfa.3 for <lsr@ietf.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 21:32:00 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=gKBOkgtWxL8TSwUuPKq3nM96Vvg7+AopezHxjXkKmCI=; b=dQlCNJuuYP+8W9WiSyZe+wYRn+PJF8jbDkkoVCNorzdBNoJwImrV7DhqNVR0dLdQit Z5pdk70nttgxECIKf1XNdcoOGFd/EcYr2ZCg3092q0hZjFjX1YftNHZf8QoiapK2WArk mwo/kbPjqImoDkXdFSoO50J+Fukiyg4ZXmMJiFLtcWLef7PZUTmyE9Hzt51vWg8xI1za 04QTtiljCO+FMK/DTVj9BrAm4UYPwwwcmjhYkR2mG/ZyaaSqANb9rBGmVCbNDw8Q9wCb V1nVO4UOw+yMnywbI3l5hp+TYZPcouVJkJI2UQ4LkxX3iY+LQe2s1RNetdI8l393TesM qKFg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=gKBOkgtWxL8TSwUuPKq3nM96Vvg7+AopezHxjXkKmCI=; b=AXX6FRkaC/2dHjL7Lv2aQqiXCYBGmcXkBh9IipOYHQAN8JRaGcpLzfPkeqYeSHX4VY 4S9kYvEkumg2z9bCjcZftI3pgmhu7iynR//7/jkrbtEThs1GutWuN49A/mYRKmth8trk aJRCjKtOBBghUA3D8YTauxaSOH53V2dPIEWfI7i2h+lrulDOoGo5san+En8xiiLiNyyH /hL0o+pTNwl+PjrmSMcfQ2MApfBMh5JAJu+g58lJSwlfC8iZOQ1NO7hyBsdYjNFLOpLf x3lMX3tGJypg1YVEWUGPqUvcq769Uqe3B1oYRzR4dyIoXXefm+vohXZzJtUj866iA4vv YI+w==
X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAuZdEcL6ck/1DrZ2hF5fnqWC+J7KK+fba/U0/eGj++2nl1dugbOG hNx4yk6+lkbjf9Jt+MFn7Oo=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IbGE+jQSjPm0F/y5Vm4aEos7JuM6Dh4MJfYyIHmYiomtsYoqtUQI8hH5o//TWiCdjU7a3/bhA==
X-Received: by 2002:a63:d449:: with SMTP id i9mr16321365pgj.449.1550727119733; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 21:31:59 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [10.95.90.107] ([162.210.129.5]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l2sm7675902pgj.64.2019.02.20.21.31.57 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 20 Feb 2019 21:31:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Tony Li <tony1athome@gmail.com>
Message-Id: <C0CFBF7D-6314-4CF6-A58F-126151A097FE@gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_DE68F54B-BA76-44D8-B830-62942531B97F"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\))
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 21:31:56 -0800
In-Reply-To: <5316A0AB3C851246A7CA5758973207D463B57ED6@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com>
Cc: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
To: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@huawei.com>
References: <sa65zu31zqk.fsf@chopps.org> <sa64l9n1yqy.fsf@chopps.org> <5316A0AB3C851246A7CA5758973207D463B3B9D8@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com> <8378287F-27B9-4663-A22B-F8A2EC6C9FC3@cisco.com> <5316A0AB3C851246A7CA5758973207D463B46315@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com> <f3dca967-9adc-d67f-2606-548624ceef91@cisco.com> <5316A0AB3C851246A7CA5758973207D463B4A6AB@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com> <25021deb-2032-9fcc-4bf4-fcaaa21598b9@cisco.com> <5316A0AB3C851246A7CA5758973207D463B56620@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com> <59b45885-3e06-e3d0-5c09-2cbee4cef341@cisco.com> <5316A0AB3C851246A7CA5758973207D463B57ED6@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/YQSfkj-pG_LaczJZYJRt1ilaXJM>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Moving Forward [Re: Flooding Reduction Draft Redux]
X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group <lsr.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/lsr>, <mailto:lsr-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/lsr/>
List-Post: <mailto:lsr@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:lsr-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr>, <mailto:lsr-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2019 05:32:03 -0000

Hi Huaimo,


> The way in which the flooding topology converges in the centralized mode/solution is different from 
> that in the distributed mode/solution. In the former, after receiving the link states for the failures,
> the leader computes a new flooding topology and floods it to every other node, which receives
> and installs the new flooding topology. The working load on every non leader node is light. It has more 
> processing power for a procedure/method for fault tolerance to failures.
> However, in the latter, every node computes and installs a new flooding topology after receiving 
> the link states for the failures. It has less processing power for a procedure/method for fault tolerance.
> It is better to let each of the two modes use its own procedure/method for fault tolerance to failures,
> which is more appropriate to it.


It’s true that a distributed solution will call more on an average node than a centralized solution will. However, that is not the steady state for either. In the 
steady state, the flooding topology has been computed and has been put in place already. Thus, the impact of the topology computation at the time of the 
topology change is nil. 

In addition, the amount of work to temporarily amend the flooding topology should also be minimal, and by that, I mean O(log n).  The decision should only
be whether or not to temporarily add a link to flooding, and the only information that a node needs to do that is to determine if the node is already on the
flooding topology. That should be a lookup in a tree that represents the nodes on the topology, and that lookup should be O(log n). In other words, it’s fast
and efficient and not a significant drain on resources.


> In the centralized solution/mode, scheduling an algorithm to compute flooding topology happens 
> only on the leader, and then on the backup leader after the leader fails. The parameters for 
> scheduling on the leader may be different from those for scheduling on the backup leader. 
> However, in the distributed solution/mode, scheduling an algorithm to compute flooding topology
> occurs on every node. The parameters for scheduling on all the nodes need to be the same. 


Actually, that’s not true.  An implementation is free to do its own internal scheduling however it chooses, regardless of whether it implements a
distributed or centralized implementation.


> The procedure for achieving this is specific to the distributed mode/solution.


More accurately, it is specific to a given implementation.


> If every particular algorithm for computing flooding topology in the distributed solution/mode
> describes a procedure for scheduling in details itself, there will be duplicated descriptions of 
> the same procedure in multiple algorithms, one of which is selected to compute flooding
> topology on every node. It is better for the same scheduling procedure for multiple algorithms 
> to be described in one document.  


Actually, since the IETF should not be specifying the details of scheduling as it is an implementation detail, as they do not affect the behavior of the protocol, it should not be
discussed in any documents.

Regards,
Tony