Re: [Lsr] A review of draft-zhu-lsr-isis-sr-vtn-flexalgo-04
Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com> Wed, 18 May 2022 13:21 UTC
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From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 18 May 2022 09:21:06 -0400
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To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
Cc: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" <jie.dong=40huawei.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "draft-zhu-lsr-isis-sr-vtn-flexalgo@ietf.org" <draft-zhu-lsr-isis-sr-vtn-flexalgo@ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] A review of draft-zhu-lsr-isis-sr-vtn-flexalgo-04
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Hi John Agreed FAD is restrictive with 128 values. Agreed. Very good point and great idea! Kind Regards Gyan On Wed, May 18, 2022 at 9:13 AM John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net> wrote: > Gyan, > > > > I don’t think we want a 1:1 mapping between NRP and FAD because it is a > too restrictive and because it unnecessarily burns through FADs. Rather, > what I think we want is a set of resource SIDs, one per-NRP that are > allocated by each node that is part of a FAD on each of its links that are > currently part of the topology of that FAD. There is then a label > allocated by that node to represent the [FAD, NRP] tuple. > > > > Yours Irrespectively, > > > > John > > > > > > Juniper Business Use Only > > *From:* Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of * Gyan Mishra > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 18, 2022 12:51 AM > *To:* Dongjie (Jimmy) <jie.dong=40huawei.com@dmarc.ietf.org> > *Cc:* adrian@olddog.co.uk; draft-zhu-lsr-isis-sr-vtn-flexalgo@ietf.org; > lsr@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] A review of draft-zhu-lsr-isis-sr-vtn-flexalgo-04 > > > > *[External Email. Be cautious of content]* > > > > Hi Jie > > > > I reviewed the draft as well and it seems to parallel SR VTN MT draft > Enhanced VPN / VPN+ underpinning to IETF slice underlay TEAS NRP mapped > to an ISIS or OSPF MTID control plane instance. > > > > Similarly here with this draft mapping of TEAS NRP to a Flex Algo FAD > realizing of IETF network slice and now bundle members with this draft > extensions to RFC 8668 ISIS and OSPF draft > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-ospf-l2bundles-03 > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-ospf-l2bundles-03__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!EAm7KFXqQZArbnzQFkVqA5FpyXlIObJKjp4vOuwyHq-ZN9hen57I8amTNduzKTTi78WKf-984HRuvYoYDccA$> can > now be mapped to an NRP. > > > > VTN MT > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-xie-lsr-isis-sr-vtn-mt > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-xie-lsr-isis-sr-vtn-mt__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!EAm7KFXqQZArbnzQFkVqA5FpyXlIObJKjp4vOuwyHq-ZN9hen57I8amTNduzKTTi78WKf-984HRuvdXdF6CC$> > > > > Suggestion for s/VTN/NRP using updated TEAS Network slicing terminology. > > > > This draft updates RFC 8668 for ISIS but should also update the OSPF draft > above. > > > > I think Adrian may have mentioned in his review I would refer to Flex Algo > as IGP Flex Algo not SR Flex Algo throughout the draft as specified in the > IGP Flex Algo draft. > > > > I think it may or may not be the intention but I believe along with > realizing an NRP using IGP Flex Algo mapping to L2 bundle member links, > this draft also provides the context of realizing an NRP using Flex Algo > and using the Flex Algo identifier as a way to reference or index the NRP > per statement in section 2. > > > > If each VTN is associated with a unique Flex-Algo, the Flex-Algo identifier could be > > reused as the identifier of the VTN in the control plane. > > > > With the 1 to 1 mapping of Flex Algo to NRP you could also use the Flex > Algo identifier to correlate the IETF Network slice NRP being instantiated > by the NSC and possibly could use the Flex Algo identifier as the NRP ID. > > > > Kind Regards > > > > Gyan > > > > On Tue, May 17, 2022 at 6:01 AM Dongjie (Jimmy) <jie.dong= > 40huawei.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > > Hi Adrian, > > Thanks a lot for your detailed review. All your comments and suggestions > look good and we will produce a new revision to incorporate them. > > And please see replies to some points inline: > > Best regards, > Jie > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Adrian Farrel [mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk] > > Sent: Monday, May 16, 2022 7:22 PM > > To: lsr@ietf.org > > Cc: draft-zhu-lsr-isis-sr-vtn-flexalgo@ietf.org > > Subject: FW: A review of draft-zhu-lsr-isis-sr-vtn-flexalgo-04 > > > > Hi LSR and draft authors, > > > > I read this draft, and it seems to me that it provides a useful > transitional > > mechanism. It can obviously only support a relatively small number of > VTNs > > (128 due to the limited number of Flex-Algos the network devices can > > support), but it looks to be a worthwhile first step because it can be > achieved > > with a very minor control plane extension. > > > > Perhaps this document is a good first step while we work on a longer term > > and more scalable control plane solution. It would also give us the > chance to > > determine the level of interest in VTNs. > > Indeed, this is exactly the purpose of this document. > > > > > My comments, below, are mainly editorial, but there are a couple of > issues > > around the use of the E flag. > > > > Best, > > Adrian > > > > (PS. For those of you saying "What's a VTN?" the "Virtual Transport > > Network" > > is a network construct described in the TEAS WG to support Enhanced VPNs > > (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-teas-enhanced-vpn/ > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-teas-enhanced-vpn/__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!EAm7KFXqQZArbnzQFkVqA5FpyXlIObJKjp4vOuwyHq-ZN9hen57I8amTNduzKTTi78WKf-984HRuvSbcWisq$>) > and network > > slicing > > (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-teas-ietf-network-slices/ > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-teas-ietf-network-slices/__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!EAm7KFXqQZArbnzQFkVqA5FpyXlIObJKjp4vOuwyHq-ZN9hen57I8amTNduzKTTi78WKf-984HRuvezUyY8f$> > ) > > where it maps to a "Network Resource Partition".) > > > > === > > > > As currently defined, I think this document needs to update RFC 8668. > This is > > because that RFC says that other flags in the flag field of the Parent L3 > > Neighbor Descriptor in the L2 Bundle Member Attributes TLV "MUST be > > ignored". > > > > That's easy enough to handle: > > - You add the "updates 8668" element to the XML > > - You add a final paragraph to the Abstract to say > > This document updates RFC 8668 by defining a new flag in the Parent > > L3 Neighbor Descriptor in the L2 Bundle Member Attributes TLV. > > - You add a final paragraph to the Introduction to say > > This document updates [RFC8668] by defining a new flag in the Parent > > L3 Neighbor Descriptor in the L2 Bundle Member Attributes TLV. > > [RFC8668] states that all bit fields not defined in that document > > "MUST be set to zero on transmission and ignored on receipt". > > Section 3 of this document defines a new flag and specifies both > > when it is set and how it should be processed. > > > > However, a purist might point out that RFC 8668 should be fixed so that: > > > > - The unused bits are defined as reserved for future use > > - The text should be updated to describe how the bits are set and handled > > by implementations that don't understand them > > - There should be an IANA registry for the bits > > > > You're not responsible for fixing RFC 8668, but you could if you want to. > > > > Making this document an "update" is also important because of the absence > > of an IANA registry -- it is important to provide a way for people to > track the > > bits so that there is no collision when another bit is defined. > > > > You could use definitely use this document to create the necessary IANA > > registry, even if you are not fixing the other parts of 8668. > > Thanks for your suggestion, we will make this document an update of RFC > 8668 to help track the new flag. > > > > > > --- > > > > Would be worth expanding "VTN" in the title to read... > > Using Flex-Algo for Segment Routing based Virtual Transport Networks > > > > --- > > > > Abstract > > > > The first mention of "Flex-Algo" needs to have some explanation of the > > concept. Not many words, but something like... > > > > OLD > > The topological constraints of a VTN can be defined using Flex-Algo. > > NEW > > The topological constraints of a VTN can be defined using Flex-Algo, > > a mechanism to provide distributed constraint-path computation. > > END > > We will add some description about Flex-Algo. > > > > --- > > > > Abstract > > > > "SR" should be spelled out as "Segment Routing (SR)" > > > > --- > > > > Abstract > > > > s/L2 bundle/L2 bundles/ > > > > --- > > > > 1. > > > > The word "traditional" has other meanings in American English and we are > > now asked to avoid using it. > > > > OLD > > than that can be provided with traditional overlay VPNs. > > NEW > > than that could be provided with existing overlay VPNs techniques. > > END > > OK, will make the change accordingly. > > > > > --- > > > > 1. > > > > s/resource-aware SIDs/resource-aware segment identifiers (SIDs)/ s/With > > segment routing/With a segment routing/ s/Segment Identifiers (SIDs) can > > be used/SIDs can be used/ s/using control plane/using the control plane/ > > s/scalable Segment Routing (SR)/scalable SR/ s/a unique Flex-Algo/a > unique > > Flex-Algo [I-D.ietf-lsr-flex-algo]/ > > > > --- > > > > Section 1 has just one sentence on the purpose and content of this > > document. > > > > This document > > describes a mechanism to build the SR based VTNs using SR Flex-Algo > > and IGP L2 bundle with minor extensions. > > > > This text is fine, but rather limited. > > I suggest: > > - Make it a separate paragraph so that it stands out. > > - Add at least two more sentences describing what is found in this > > document. Probably you can just summarise what the mechanism is. > > - Describe the purpose and intended use of the mechanism. > > > > We will expand this with a few more sentences. > > > > --- > > > > 1.1 > > > > The boilerplate here is slightly wrong. Should read... > > > > The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL > > NOT", > > "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "NOT RECOMMENDED", > > "MAY", and > > "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in BCP > > 14 [RFC2119] [RFC8174] when, and only when, they appear in all > > capitals, as shown here. > > > > --- > > > > 3. > > > > s/can be allocated with a set/can be allocated a set/ > > > > --- > > > > 3. > > > > OLD > > In order to perform constraint > > based path computation for each VTN on network controller and the > > ingress nodes, the resource attribute of each VTN also needs to be > > advertised. > > NEW > > In order for a network controller or the ingress nodes to perform > > constraint based path computation for each VTN, the resource > > attributes of each VTN need to be advertised. > > END > > > > --- > > > > 3. > > > > s/resource attribute of the VTN/resource attributes of the VTN/ > > > > --- > > > > 3. > > > > OLD > > The layer-3 link may or may not be a bundle of layer-2 links, as long > > as it has the capability of partitioning the link resources into > > different subsets for different VTNs it participates in. > > NEW > > The layer-3 link must have the capability of partitioning the link > > resources into different subsets for the different VTNs it > > participates in. It may or may not be a bundle of layer-2 links to > > achieve this. > > END > > > > --- > > > > 3. > > > > s/set of link resource allocated/set of link resources allocated/ s/the > Parent > > L3 link are used/the Parent L3 link is used/ > > > > --- > > > > 3. > > > > Add to the paragraph that begins "E flag:" ... > > > > Note that legacy implementations of [RFC8668] will set the E flag to > > zero (clear) meaning that load balancing among component links is the > > default behavior. Further, when a legacy implementation receives an > > E flag that is set, it will ignore the flag and so will assume that > > load balancing among component links is allowed even when the sender > > has requested it to not be used. > > > > NOTE WELL! If this is not the behaviour you want to see, you need to do > > something different with the E flag. > > Yes, a legacy node will ignore this Flag and perform load balancing among > the component links. While since Flex-Algo is used to control the set of > nodes involved in a VTN, only the nodes which support the extension will > participate in the Flex-Algo for VTN. > > > > > > --- > > > > 3. > > > > For each virtual or physical layer-2 member link, the TE attributes > > defined in [RFC5305] such as the Maximum Link Bandwidth and Admin > > Groups SHOULD be advertised using the mechanism as defined in > > [RFC8668]. > > > > a. You need to say why an implementation might choose to not do this > > (to explain your use of SHOULD), what the consequences would be, and > > what it might do instead. > > > > b. s/[RFC5305]/[RFC5305],/ > > > > c. s/Groups/Groups,/ > > In RFC 8668, the TE attributes of the layer-2 member link are optional > attributes. In this VTN scenario, the admin groups (color) is required for > the correlation between the Flex-Algo specific forwarding entries and the > member link. The bandwidth attribute is optional and may be needed in the > constraint based path computation performed by the network controller or > the ingress nodes. We will correct the requirement language usage. > > > > > > --- > > > > 3. > > > > The SR-MPLS Adj-SIDs or SRv6 End.X SIDs associated with > > each of the virtual or physical Layer-2 member links SHOULD also be > > advertised according to [RFC8668] and [I-D.dong-lsr-l2bundle-srv6]. > > > > You need to say why an implementation might choose to not do this (to > > explain your use of SHOULD), what the consequences would be, and what it > > might do instead. > > The SR SIDs associated with the layer-2 member links are required in the > mechanism. We will replace the "SHOULD" with "MUST". > > > > > > --- > > > > 3. > > > > In order to correlate the virtual or physical layer-2 member links > > with the Flex-Algo ID which is used to identify the VTN, each VTN > > SHOULD be assigned with a unique Admin Group (AG) or Extended Admin > > Group (EAG), and the virtual or physical layer-2 member links > > associated with this VTN SHOULD be configured with the AG or EAG > > assigned to the VTN. The AG or EAG of the parent layer-3 link SHOULD > > be set to the union of all the AGs or EAGs of its virtual or physical > > layer-2 member links. > > > > I think the three instances of "SHOULD" here can be: > > s/SHOULD be/is/ > > s/SHOULD be/are/ > > s/SHOULD be/is/ > > > > --- > > > > 3. > > > > s/VTN, It/VTN, it/ > > > > --- > > > > 4. > > > > s/For SR-MPLS data plane/For the SR-MPLS data plane/ > > > > --- > > > > 4. > > > > The Adj-SIDs associated > > with the virtual or physical member links of a VTN MAY be used with > > the prefix-SIDs of the same VTN together to build SR-MPLS TE paths > > with the topological and resource constraints of the VTN. > > > > I recommend s/MAY/can/ > > > > Similarly in > > > > The > > End.XU SIDs associated with the virtual or physical member links of a > > VTN MAY be used with the SRv6 Locator prefix of the same VTN together > > to build SRv6 paths with the topological and resource constraints of > > the VTN. > > > > --- > > > > 4. > > > > s/For SRv6 data plane/For the SRv6 data plane/ > > > > --- > > > > 5. > > > > OLD > > which is related to the number of Flex-Algos defined NEW > > which is related to the maximum number of Flex-Algos supported END > > > > OLD > > described in [I-D.dong-teas-nrp-scalability]. > > NEW > > found in [I-D.dong-teas-nrp-scalability]. > > END > > Thanks for catching this, we will update the reference in next revision. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!EAm7KFXqQZArbnzQFkVqA5FpyXlIObJKjp4vOuwyHq-ZN9hen57I8amTNduzKTTi78WKf-984HRuvWwB5M2I$> > > -- > > > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.verizon.com/__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!EAm7KFXqQZArbnzQFkVqA5FpyXlIObJKjp4vOuwyHq-ZN9hen57I8amTNduzKTTi78WKf-984HRuvYmXl6jA$> > > *Gyan Mishra* > > *Network Solutions Architect * > > *Email gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com <gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com>* > > *M 301 502-1347* > > > -- <http://www.verizon.com/> *Gyan Mishra* *Network Solutions A**rchitect * *Email gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com <gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com>* *M 301 502-1347*
- [Lsr] FW: A review of draft-zhu-lsr-isis-sr-vtn-f… Adrian Farrel
- Re: [Lsr] A review of draft-zhu-lsr-isis-sr-vtn-f… Dongjie (Jimmy)
- Re: [Lsr] A review of draft-zhu-lsr-isis-sr-vtn-f… Adrian Farrel
- Re: [Lsr] A review of draft-zhu-lsr-isis-sr-vtn-f… Gyan Mishra
- Re: [Lsr] A review of draft-zhu-lsr-isis-sr-vtn-f… John E Drake
- Re: [Lsr] A review of draft-zhu-lsr-isis-sr-vtn-f… Gyan Mishra
- Re: [Lsr] A review of draft-zhu-lsr-isis-sr-vtn-f… Dongjie (Jimmy)
- Re: [Lsr] A review of draft-zhu-lsr-isis-sr-vtn-f… Gyan Mishra
- Re: [Lsr] A review of draft-zhu-lsr-isis-sr-vtn-f… Dongjie (Jimmy)
- Re: [Lsr] A review of draft-zhu-lsr-isis-sr-vtn-f… Gyan Mishra