Re: [ltans] Harber and Stornetta expiry

Peter Sylvester <> Mon, 18 July 2011 15:43 UTC

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Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 17:45:12 +0200
From: Peter Sylvester <>
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Subject: Re: [ltans] Harber and Stornetta expiry
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On 07/18/2011 02:07 PM, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 6:05 AM, Peter Sylvester 
> < <>> wrote:
>     The purpose of hash linking schemes is to link time stamps
>     together and
>     to be able to verify them without the need of any cryptographic key
>     which have the tendency to have their secrecy evaporate.
> Its not the secrecy that worries me, its the ability to state with 
> confidence that the TSA will be around after the commercial incentive 
> is gone.
Do you mean by 'staying around':
   - being able to issue time stamps
   - being able to ensure that no one can create a correct timestamp (in 
the past)
     because no one ensure that the TSA key was destroyed.
  -  having some means to ask someone whether a given time stamp was
     really created 10 years ago (by some TSA).
  - ...
  - ... ?

> Its pretty easy to build a business case to support a registry of 
> digital signatures on mortgage notes to last 30-50 odd years. There is 
> a lot of money at stake and there will always be someone collecting on 
> the note.
these signature are less important than some actual money transfer that 
is done?

> The problem is that we only have this type of business models for a 
> small number of signatures and they are pretty boring applications. 
> That still leaves open the question of how we make digital libraries 
> as authentic and trustworthy as paper ones used to be.
Paper is less authentic as one belives, but I agree, the physical 
characteristics of paper allow
to have some trust in the integrity, and additional measures like seals, 
the paper types itselfs
stamps, etc contribute. Sometime that way of writing ... one third of 
decrees of prpriety for
the church issued by CharleMagne are false.

> Print is dead. In 100 years time nobody will be printing books other 
> than for religious or sentimental reasons. People can argue about 
> whether that should happen but it is very clear that it will happen.
I avoid predicting things, especially those in the future. :-)
> A couple of years ago GM went bankrupt. A couple of weeks ago the 
> worlds largest circulation tabloid went out of business despite robust 
> profits. How can we say with confidence that a TSA is going to be 
> around in 100 years time?
What confidence do you need for a TSA?

If I read RFC 3161, ....