Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage

Shawn Steele <Shawn.Steele@microsoft.com> Fri, 16 May 2008 16:30 UTC

Return-Path: <ltru-bounces@ietf.org>
X-Original-To: ltru-archive@megatron.ietf.org
Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25EF53A6B42; Fri, 16 May 2008 09:30:37 -0700 (PDT)
X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A6003A6ACF for <ltru@core3.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 May 2008 09:30:35 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -10.543
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.543 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.056, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zSy-+ppfb0SM for <ltru@core3.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 May 2008 09:30:34 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from smtp.microsoft.com (smtp.microsoft.com [131.107.115.214]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEE273A688D for <ltru@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 May 2008 09:30:34 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from tk5-exhub-c104.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (157.54.88.97) by TK5-EXGWY-E803.partners.extranet.microsoft.com (10.251.56.169) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.1.240.5; Fri, 16 May 2008 09:30:29 -0700
Received: from NA-EXMSG-C116.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.62.39]) by tk5-exhub-c104.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.88.97]) with mapi; Fri, 16 May 2008 09:30:29 -0700
From: Shawn Steele <Shawn.Steele@microsoft.com>
To: "Phillips, Addison" <addison@amazon.com>, Peter Constable <petercon@microsoft.com>, Doug Ewell <doug@ewellic.org>, LTRU Working Group <ltru@ietf.org>
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 09:30:28 -0700
Thread-Topic: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage
Thread-Index: Aci3JsQR79pXsZVBSjCDjtvmPhwOZgANuV+wAAEc12AAA73A1A==
Message-ID: <C9BF0238EED3634BA1866AEF14C7A9E561554BEAF9@NA-EXMSG-C116.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>
References: <mailman.494.1210865385.5128.ltru@ietf.org> <00a901c8b6f5$c04529a0$e6f5e547@DGBP7M81> <DDB6DE6E9D27DD478AE6D1BBBB83579562E143D665@NA-EXMSG-C117.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>, <4D25F22093241741BC1D0EEBC2DBB1DA013A118FF0@EX-SEA5-D.ant.amazon.com>
In-Reply-To: <4D25F22093241741BC1D0EEBC2DBB1DA013A118FF0@EX-SEA5-D.ant.amazon.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
acceptlanguage: en-US
MIME-Version: 1.0
Subject: Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage
X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list <ltru.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru>, <mailto:ltru-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/pipermail/ltru>
List-Post: <mailto:ltru@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ltru-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru>, <mailto:ltru-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org
Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org

> So we have a small impasse, indicative of the larger problem here: do we or do we not
> recommend against the use of 'zh' to tag Mandarin Chinese? It isn't the tagging of
> Cantonese that is the controversy. It is whether 'zh' is equated with Mandarin.

I would recommend against tagging Mandarin chinese with zh.  Most people seem to be fairly clear that "zh" means "general unspecified chinese" and "cmn" means Mandarin.

--
<t>With the adoption of this document, subtags for the encompassed languages became available for use in language tags. These subtags SHOULD be used instead of the macrolanguage subtag 'zh' to identify Chinese language content. While documents written in Standard Mandarin could use the 'cmn' (Mandarin) subtag, their wide accessibility can be indicated by using the 'zh' subtag in this case.</t>
--
<shawn> this makes no sense :)  The middle sentence ways "use cmn instead of zh". and the final sentence says "use zh instead of cmn".  If the last sentence is necessary, then it should mention back compat or other mechanisms (like as part of a list that also includes cmn).  The way its written is like saying "tag english as 001 (world) because lots of people can read it".  I don't think that zh should ever be appropriate for cmn (excluding maybe back compat concerns), unless people really don't know which chinese it is.  It has been made very clear that although most Cantonese speakers may be able to read Mandarin, it is not sort of general chinese readable by all when read, it is Mandarin.

- Shawn
_______________________________________________
Ltru mailing list
Ltru@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru