IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [Ltru] Extended language tags (long reply)

Karen_Broome@spe.sony.com Wed, 10 October 2007 21:01 UTC

Return-path: <ltru-bounces@ietf.org>
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ifigj-00010t-EP; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 17:01:53 -0400
Received: from ltru by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Ifigh-00010V-P8 for ltru-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 17:01:51 -0400
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ifigh-0000vD-FB for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 17:01:51 -0400
Received: from outbound-blu.frontbridge.com ([65.55.251.16] helo=outbound5-blu-R.bigfish.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfigW-0000ZE-LK for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 17:01:47 -0400
Received: from outbound5-blu.bigfish.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by outbound5-blu-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 691D011087DA; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 21:01:23 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from mail31-blu-R.bigfish.com (unknown [10.1.252.3]) by outbound5-blu.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 196B6B30052; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 21:01:23 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from mail31-blu (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail31-blu-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 366DA1B881EF; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 21:01:22 +0000 (UTC)
X-BigFish: VP
X-MS-Exchange-Organization-Antispam-Report: OrigIP: 64.14.251.196; Service: EHS
Received: by mail31-blu (MessageSwitch) id 1192050081853132_1078; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 21:01:21 +0000 (UCT)
Received: from USCCIMTA02.spe.sony.com (unknown [64.14.251.196]) (using SSLv3 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail31-blu.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1729B14C006E; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 21:01:20 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from usmail02.spe.sony.com ([43.130.148.26]) by USCCIMTA02.spe.sony.com (Lotus Domino Release 6.5.5) with ESMTP id 2007101014011863-275738 ; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 14:01:18 -0700
In-Reply-To: <20071010193116.GC15438@mercury.ccil.org>
To: John Cowan <cowan@ccil.org>
Subject: Re: [Ltru] Extended language tags (long reply)
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 6.5.5 CCH7 December 15, 2006
Message-ID: <OF28C24F32.6042591D-ON88257370.00720727-88257370.007379DF@spe.sony.com>
From: Karen_Broome@spe.sony.com
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 13:58:53 -0700
X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on USMAIL02/SVR/SPE(Release 6.5.5FP1|April 11, 2006) at 10/10/2007 13:58:53, Serialize complete at 10/10/2007 13:58:53, Itemize by SMTP Server on USCCiMTA02/SVR/SPE(Release 6.5.5|November 30, 2005) at 10/10/2007 02:01:18 PM, Serialize by Router on USCCiMTA02/SVR/SPE(Release 6.5.5|November 30, 2005) at 10/10/2007 02:01:21 PM, Serialize complete at 10/10/2007 02:01:21 PM
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----)
X-Scan-Signature: 00e94c813bef7832af255170dca19e36
Cc: "ltru@ietf.org" <ltru@ietf.org>
X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
Precedence: list
List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list <ltru.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru>, <mailto:ltru-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/ltru>
List-Post: <mailto:ltru@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ltru-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru>, <mailto:ltru-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org

Without additional disambiguation, this is very confusing to just about 
anyone with a language list that includes Flemish. It is especially 
confusing to me as the editor of ISO 639-3 previously indicated to me and 
the MPAA that this was indeed the tag for the Flemish dialect of Dutch. 
Granted, 639-3 was in DIS status at that point. After ISO 639-3 was 
published, I recommended the "vls" tag for a non-RFC-4646 usage than 
spanned efforts of several studios. 

Could we make a request for just a bit more disambiguation in the 
Ethnologue entry?

This is text I received in a private e-mail about the tag when I presented 
a list of film languages a couple years back and asked for equivalents in 
ISO 639-3. I specifically noted the need to distinguish the Flemish 
dialect of Dutch from the Netherlands variant:

"ISO 639-3 does have an entry for "Flemish", though it happens to use the 
autonym "Vlaams" for the reference name. That is, on the one hand, a 
documentation problem and, on the other, a UI problem: a developer needs 
to be able to discover that the entry "vls, 'Vlaams'" is for Flemish, and 
then they need to determine the UI string they should present to users 
that will allow *them* to find the correct item in a list. 

Regards,

Karen Broome





John Cowan <cowan@ccil.org> 
10/10/2007 12:31 PM

To
Karen_Broome@spe.sony.com
cc
"ltru@ietf.org" <ltru@ietf.org>
Subject
Re: [Ltru] Extended language tags (long reply)






Karen_Broome@spe.sony.com scripsit:
> I wrote:
> 
> (I still don't know whether "vls" 
> (639-3) falls back to "nld/dut" in 639-2, though Flemish is cited as a 
> synonym for Vlaams in 639-3.)

It does not.

> Sorry, I meant to say that "Flemish" is cited as a synonym on 
> Ethnologue.com.

That is to say, the name "Flemish" has been used for both vls and
the Belgian version of nl.

-- 
Mark Twain on Cecil Rhodes:                    John Cowan
I admire him, I freely admit it,               http://www.ccil.org/~cowan
and when his time comes I shall                cowan@ccil.org
buy a piece of the rope for a keepsake.


_______________________________________________
Ltru mailing list
Ltru@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru






_______________________________________________
Ltru mailing list
Ltru@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email