[Ltru] RE: Language picking

Alberto Escudero Pascual <aep@it46.se> Wed, 11 October 2006 18:05 UTC

Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GXiSM-0003Vd-TO; Wed, 11 Oct 2006 14:05:26 -0400
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GXaNE-0002Os-Hp for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 11 Oct 2006 05:27:36 -0400
Received: from vmail.nodo50.org ([194.109.216.190] helo=revolware.nodo50.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GXaNB-0007Po-32 for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 11 Oct 2006 05:27:36 -0400
Received: from localhost.localdomain (revolware.nodo50.org [194.109.209.218]) by revolware.nodo50.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E22CA3963B4; Wed, 11 Oct 2006 11:27:05 +0200 (CEST)
From: Alberto Escudero Pascual <aep@it46.se>
To: Don Osborn <dzo@bisharat.net>
In-Reply-To: <020a01c6e96a$413bc880$c3b35980$@net>
References: <20061006054245.GA19459@ccil.org> <FE2ACA3797174A9BA74424A70D038A72.MAI@home> <01f401c6e95f$1b86c5a0$529450e0$@net> <20061006160013.GB10761@ccil.org> <020a01c6e96a$413bc880$c3b35980$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain
Organization: IT46
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 11:27:11 +0200
Message-Id: <1160558832.8119.19.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Evolution 2.4.1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: d8ae4fd88fcaf47c1a71c804d04f413d
X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 14:05:25 -0400
Cc: ietf-languages@iana.org, ltru@ietf.org, louise@it46.se
Subject: [Ltru] RE: Language picking
X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
Precedence: list
Reply-To: aep@it46.se
List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list <ltru.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru>, <mailto:ltru-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/ltru>
List-Post: <mailto:ltru@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ltru-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru>, <mailto:ltru-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org

Hi Don and John,

When we worked in the locale generator http://www.it46.se/localegen we
worked with the best resources that were available in that time. The
task is/was not easy and as far as i know the tool has served for its
purpose that is too gather some initial data from languages. We put
together more locales in two weeks that in years of previous work. 

Usability was taken into consideration from the very early stage of the
design. If you do not find a language under the list, you can always
edit the entries manually (see manual of the application).

We are happy to receive feedback, the "interactive search option" is now
added to our wish-list. We are also happy to hear if someone wants to
move forward with the tool. 

Alberto

On Fri, 2006-10-06 at 13:09 -0400, Don Osborn wrote:
> Thanks, John, I think the Locale Generator as such was a first cut. I'll cc
> this to Alberto and Louise (who created the Generator earlier this year) for
> their info (see archives via
> http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages ).
> 
> Two issues: you and they base the list on 639-3, which is okay if
> "macrolanguages," are included and better yet if 639-1 code categories are
> also there. I think the level of precision of language picking for locales
> and localization depends a lot on the use. If it's localizing a software, it
> makes no sense to look at separate versions for 8 varieties of
> Fulfulde/Pulaar, or a dozen or so Manding tongues, but if you are talking
> about text it might even be helpful in some cases to have a finer
> distinction. There are lots of such examples in Africa, for instance.
> 
> This need for flexibility almost seems to require a more "artisanal"
> approach that lets real people who are more or less familiar with the
> languages, countries, needs, etc. access information to make the choices
> based on their perceived specific needs. This is the sense of the PAL
> African language wiki I also mentioned.
> 
> Where I think lists such as those you and Alberto and Louise are working on
> fitting in this process is in providing a range of information and options
> on the way to producing some output - and that that output be explicitly
> part of an iterative process. That is to say, it is not the final word in
> itself, but an aid in reaching an appropriate solution. The products of
> Locale Generator, for example, indeed are reviewed before submission.
> 
> Ultimately an interactive search option might be a good feature for such
> lists (which I guess requires a database or an advanced search facility). It
> might also alert users to language synonym issues - unrelated languages with
> the same or similar names that might be confused.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Don
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Cowan [mailto:cowan@ccil.org] 
> Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 12:00 PM
> To: Don Osborn
> Cc: debbie@ictmarketing.co.uk; ltru@ietf.org; ietf-languages@iana.org
> Subject: Re: Language picking
> 
> Don Osborn scripsit:
> 
> > The Locale Generator - http://www.it46.se/localegen/ (list of 
> > languages for creation of locales from ISO/FDIS 636-3 - needs to be 
> > amended IMO; country is selected after language)
> 
> This is a fine example of what's wrong with just using the bare list of
> languages.  The list is here broken up by first letter of the alphabet into
> 27 sublists, but when I look for Dari under "D", I don't find it and go away
> in disgust (see my earlier posting).
> 


_______________________________________________
Ltru mailing list
Ltru@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru