Re: [Ltru] Re: extlang
Karen_Broome@spe.sony.com Fri, 31 August 2007 17:48 UTC
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To: Doug Ewell <dewell@roadrunner.com>
Subject: Re: [Ltru] Re: extlang
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From: Karen_Broome@spe.sony.com
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I'd also add that I'm far from innocent, but that discussion is outside of the scope of the charter so let's get back to business. Thanks, Doug. Karen Broome "Doug Ewell" <dewell@roadrunner.com> 08/31/2007 10:26 AM To "LTRU Working Group" <ltru@ietf.org> cc Subject Re: [Ltru] Re: extlang Marion Gunn <mgunn at egt dot ie> wrote: >> If m*crolanguage is an offensive term, perhaps macrolanguage is as >> well? > > This episode most certainly casts some doubt on that term, if its use > can so easily generate a concept we do not want to planted in the mind > of an innocent professional (such as yourself). Okay, we need to end this line of insinnuendo *right now*. NOBODY in this Working Group, which is chartered to provide a mechanism for tagging content in over 7,600 languages and variants, is interested in "denigrating," or insulting, or relegating to second-class status, any of those 7,600 languages. I am certain beyond question that neither Karen nor John in particular has that in mind. We would not be in this WG if that were the case. ISO 639-3 introduced a new word, "macrolanguage," for a concept such as "Chinese" which is considered a single language in some contexts and multiple languages in others. It's a useful concept, and the term is more or less arbitrary; I doubt I could come up with a better one in five minutes. The word "encompassed" has been used in ISO 639-3 to describe languages like Cantonese and Wu that are covered under the "macrolanguage" called Chinese. The term "encompassed language" doesn't flow off the tongue nearly as easily as its counterpart "macrolanguage," and might not have caught on yet, so Karen apparently used the ad-hoc term "microlanguage" in a private message and John repeated it on-list. "Micro-" is an obvious opposite of "macro-". This sort of word-forming process is common among technical-minded people, including much of the LTRU membership (I make up words every day). There is no negative connotation associated with this "micro-" prefix, least of all in the minds of people who work every day with "microcomputers" which use "microprocessors" that execute "microcode" and run software produced by a business giant called "Microsoft." We had to endure a similar accusation some time ago over the terms "primary language subtag" and "extended language subtag." No, we do not consider some languages to be "primary" and other, less fortunate languages to be "extended"; those are terms used to describe the short alphabetic identifiers that go into a language tag. The same is true for "macrolanguage" and whatever we choose to call the individual languages they stand for. Let's all get back to the business at hand and show some respect for the intentions of our fellow list members. A little less caffeine might be a good idea as well. -- Doug Ewell · Fullerton, California, USA · RFC 4645 · UTN #14 http://users.adelphia.net/~dewell/ http://www1.ietf.org/html.charters/ltru-charter.html http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru
- [Ltru] Re: IANA, UTF-8 and the Language Subtag Re… Frank Ellermann
- [Ltru] Re: extlang Doug Ewell
- [Ltru] Re: IANA, UTF-8 and the Language Subtag Re… Doug Ewell
- [Ltru] Re: extlang Doug Ewell
- Re: [Ltru] Re: extlang Gerard Meijssen
- [Ltru] Re: extlang Doug Ewell
- RE: [Ltru] Re: extlang Peter Constable
- Re: [Ltru] Re: extlang John Cowan
- Re: [Ltru] Re: IANA, UTF-8 and the Language Subta… David Conrad
- Re: [Ltru] Re: extlang Doug Ewell
- Re: [Ltru] Re: extlang Karen_Broome
- Re: [Ltru] Re: extlang John Cowan
- Re: [Ltru] Re: IANA, UTF-8 and the Language Subta… Doug Ewell
- Re: [Ltru] Re: extlang Doug Ewell
- [Ltru] Re: extlang Doug Ewell
- Re: [Ltru] Re: extlang John Cowan
- [Ltru] Numerical region subtags (RE: extlang) Don Osborn
- Re: [Ltru] Numerical region subtags (RE: extlang) Addison Phillips
- [Ltru] Re: Numerical region subtags (RE: extlang) Doug Ewell
- [Ltru] RE: Numerical region subtags (RE: extlang) Don Osborn
- [Ltru] Re: extlang Doug Ewell
- [Ltru] Re: extlang Doug Ewell
- [Ltru] Re: extlang Doug Ewell
- [Ltru] Re: extlang Doug Ewell
- [Ltru] Re: extlang Doug Ewell
- [Ltru] extlang Mark Davis
- Re: [Ltru] extlang Randy Presuhn
- [Ltru] Re: extlang John Cowan
- [Ltru] Re: extlang Mark Davis
- Re: [Ltru] Re: extlang Martin Duerst
- Re: [Ltru] extlang Martin Duerst
- Re: [Ltru] Re: extlang Martin Duerst
- Re: [Ltru] Re: extlang Karen_Broome
- Re: [Ltru] Re: extlang Randy Presuhn
- Re: [Ltru] Re: extlang John Cowan
- RE: [Ltru] Re: extlang Peter Constable
- Re: [Ltru] Re: extlang Mark Davis
- Re: [Ltru] Re: extlang Marion Gunn
- Re: [Ltru] Re: extlang Marion Gunn
- Re: [Ltru] Re: extlang Addison Phillips
- Re: [Ltru] Re: extlang Marion Gunn
- [Ltru] Use of the string "microlangauges" Randy Presuhn
- Re: [Ltru] Re: extlang Karen_Broome
- Re: [Ltru] Re: extlang John Cowan
- RE: [Ltru] Re: extlang Peter Constable
- Re: [Ltru] Re: extlang Mark Davis
- Re: [Ltru] Re: extlang Doug Ewell
- [Ltru] Re: extlang Doug Ewell
- Re: [Ltru] Re: extlang Marion Gunn
- Re: [Ltru] Re: extlang John Cowan
- Re: [Ltru] Re: extlang GerardM
- [Ltru] Re: extlang Doug Ewell
- Re: [Ltru] Re: extlang John Cowan
- Re: [Ltru] Re: extlang Doug Ewell
- Re: [Ltru] Re: extlang John Cowan
- RE: [Ltru] Re: extlang Peter Constable
- Re: [Ltru] Re: extlang Addison Phillips
- Re: [Ltru] Re: extlang John Cowan
- Re: [Ltru] Re: extlang Doug Ewell
- Re: [Ltru] Re: extlang Marion Gunn
- [Ltru] Availability of ISO documents (Was: extlang Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [Ltru] Availability of ISO documents (Was: ex… John Cowan
- [Ltru] Re: Availability of ISO documents (Was: ex… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- [Ltru] Re: Availability of ISO documents (Was: ex… Marion Gunn