Re: [Ltru] Language tags and (localization) processes (Re: draft-davis-t-langtag-ext)
Mark Davis ☕ <mark@macchiato.com> Wed, 13 July 2011 14:32 UTC
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Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 07:32:42 -0700
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From: Mark Davis ☕ <mark@macchiato.com>
To: Felix Sasaki <felix.sasaki@fh-potsdam.de>
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Cc: ietf-languages@iana.org, ltru@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Ltru] Language tags and (localization) processes (Re: draft-davis-t-langtag-ext)
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Sorry, I missed this earlier. Will respond. Mark *— Il meglio è l’inimico del bene —* On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 00:23, Felix Sasaki <felix.sasaki@fh-potsdam.de>wrote: > The current draft states > > "Language tags, as defined by [BCP47<http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-davis-t-langtag-ext-02#ref-BCP47>], > are useful for identifying the > > language of content. There are mechanisms for specifying variant > subtags for special purposes. However, these variants are > insufficient for specifying text transformations, including content > > that has been transliterated, transcribed, or translated." > > I am requesting a clarification from the editors, that includes a liaison > with the Unicode ULI TC http://uli.unicode.org/ , and a clarification in > the draft. > > Language tags so far have described *states*: an object is in a language, a > script etc. The proposed extension extends languages to describe the outcome > of a *process*: objects have been transformed, with a source object as the > basis for this process. According to the paragraph above, this > transformation includes also translation. > > So far formats like TBX, XLIFF or others have been used for aligning source > and target contents. These formats also use language tags, via xml:lang. > However, the transformation, i.e. the process information, is not expressed > via the language tag, but via XML structures (pairs of source and target > elements). The language tags are purely for identifying the state of an > object. > > To avoid confusion for users of the above and other, process related > formats about where to put language identification information and where to > put process related information, I am asking you to > 1) Liaise with the ULI TC about the issue described above and see what > issues they see here > 2) Document the outcome of this liaison on this list and in the draft > There is no need to have long explanations in the draft, but guidance about > the topic will be very helpful to avoid confusion. > > As a side note, formats like TBX, XLIFF and others reduce the usage of a > language tag for good reasons: information related to processes like > translation can be very complex, e.g. expressing translation state, cycle, > quality. So I have the general concern that language tags might be > overloaded with key value pairs in areas that would require more complex > information and that potentially overlap with formats that provide that > information. Nevertheless I won't object against moving this extension > forward, if the concerns are explained properly in the draft. > > Felix > > 2011/7/12 Mark Davis ☕ <mark@macchiato.com> > >> We've posted a new version of >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-davis-t-langtag-ext >> >> Diffs are here: >> http://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-davis-t-langtag-ext-02.txt >> >> The changes are: >> >> * Made it clear that application to the case of speech was included, added >> Peter C's example. >> * Fixed references, adding authors, removing unneeded reference. >> * Changed ABNF. Mostly just the table form, but also defined alphanum. >> * Made it clear that the CLDR committee must post proposals publicly. >> * Added more information on the XML structure, including the description >> attribute. (Note that the CLDR committee had decided to add the description >> attribute before this process began.) >> * Added fixes for typos noted by CEW. >> >> Please let us know of further feedback. >> >> Note to Doug: The CLDR committee had agreed to move the descriptions into >> the bcp47 files, such as >> http://unicode.org/repos/cldr/trunk/common/bcp47/calendar.xml. Yoshito >> has the action to do that, and was able to accelerate it. So please take a >> look if you have the time. >> >> Mark >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ltru mailing list >> Ltru@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru >> >> >
- [Ltru] Language tags and (localization) processes… Felix Sasaki
- [Ltru] Language tags and (localization) processes… CE Whitehead
- Re: [Ltru] Language tags and (localization) proce… CE Whitehead
- Re: [Ltru] Language tags and (localization) proce… Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [Ltru] Language tags and (localization) proce… Felix Sasaki
- Re: [Ltru] Language tags and (localization) proce… Mark Davis ☕
- Re: [Ltru] Language tags and (localization) proce… Mark Davis ☕
- Re: [Ltru] Language tags and (localization) proce… Felix Sasaki
- Re: [Ltru] Language tags and (localization) proce… Mark Davis ☕
- Re: [Ltru] Language tags and (localization) proce… John Cowan
- Re: [Ltru] Language tags and (localization) proce… CE Whitehead