[Ltru] Re: John Cowan throws in the towel on extlangs
"Doug Ewell" <dewell@roadrunner.com> Fri, 30 November 2007 06:24 UTC
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From: Doug Ewell <dewell@roadrunner.com>
To: LTRU Working Group <ltru@ietf.org>
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Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 22:24:33 -0800
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Subject: [Ltru] Re: John Cowan throws in the towel on extlangs
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John Cowan <cowan at ccil dot org> wrote: > In practical terms, this means that (unless someone else wants to take > up the cause on the LTRU mailing list and see Bonnie Prince Charlie > come into his own again) that we will allow all 639-3 code elements to > be language subtags, and deprecate all the grandfathered forms like > "zh-yue" (Cantonese) in favor of just 'yue'. Similarly, the currently > redundant sign languages like "sgn-US" will be deprecated in favor of > 'ase' and friends. The existing language tags representing > macrolanguages of course remain intact. Since I've been under the impression that extlangs were the only serious remaining issue, I hope we will soon see a draft-4646bis-10 that codifies the no-extlang decision and is otherwise as close as possible to WGLC-ready. I need to do another 4645bis draft that reflects this decision and the (apparently unstoppaable) addition of EU and friends, and Id like that draft to be WGLC-ready as well. It's almost December; enough is enough. > IMO we should strongly consider adding a new informative (and mutable) > "Fallback" header in the registry which will inform people about > problematic cases like "cmn" and "arb" (Standard Arabic), instructing > them which language subtag to fall back to in cases of match failure. > These will have to be cherry-picked, like Suppress-Script, but Peter > Constable has estimated that there are no more than 15 such cases > actually in wide use. For some macrolanguages, there is no dominant > variety, and no special consideration is as yet required; if new > dominant varieties come to exist in future, new Fallback headers can > be added. RFC 4647bis can then be revised to explain how this header > MAY be used to enhance matching. As much as I appreciate the rationale for this idea -- the difference between the two classes of macrolanguage are well-known -- I'm concerned about any additional cherry-picking. We've seen too much controversy already over Suppress-Script, a feature that exists to help prevent taggers from making bad tagging decisions. I feat there might be even less support for a feature that is meant to help tag recipients make better matching decisions. I keep hearing that people will want to tailor their own fallback (Breton to French, etc.) independently of what the Registry says. If we add this field, will anyone use it? -- Doug Ewell * Fullerton, California, USA * RFC 4645 * UTN #14 http://home.roadrunner.com/~dewell http://www1.ietf.org/html.charters/ltru-charter.html http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages ˆ _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru
- [Ltru] John Cowan throws in the towel on extlangs John Cowan
- [Ltru] Fallback vs. Macrolanguage? (was: John Cow… Addison Phillips
- RE: [Ltru] Fallback vs. Macrolanguage? (was: John… Don Osborn
- [Ltru] Re: John Cowan throws in the towel on extl… John Cowan
- RE: [Ltru] John Cowan throws in the towel on extl… Peter Constable
- RE: [Ltru] John Cowan throws in the towel on extl… Don Osborn
- Re: [Ltru] John Cowan throws in the towel on extl… John Cowan
- Re: [Ltru] John Cowan throws in the towel on extl… Addison Phillips
- [Ltru] Re: Fallback vs. Macrolanguage? (was: John… John Cowan
- [Ltru] Re: John Cowan throws in the towel on extl… Doug Ewell
- [Ltru] Re: John Cowan throws in the towel on extl… Doug Ewell
- RE: [Ltru] John Cowan throws in the towel on extl… Peter Constable
- RE: [Ltru] John Cowan throws in the towel on extl… Karen_Broome
- Re: [Ltru] John Cowan throws in the towel on extl… John Cowan
- [Ltru] Re: John Cowan throws in the towel on extl… Frank Ellermann
- [Ltru] Re: John Cowan throws in the towel on extl… Doug Ewell
- [Ltru] Re: Language tags in the future version of… Doug Ewell
- [Ltru] RFC 1591 (was: Re: draft-ietf-ltru-4646bis… Doug Ewell
- Re: [Ltru] Re: John Cowan throws in the towel on … Addison Phillips
- RE: [Ltru] Re: John Cowan throws in the towel on … Peter Constable
- RE: [Ltru] Re: Language tags in the future versio… Peter Constable
- [Ltru] Re: John Cowan throws in the towel on extl… Doug Ewell
- [Ltru] Re: Language tags in the future version of… Frank Ellermann
- [Ltru] Re: John Cowan throws in the towel on extl… Frank Ellermann
- Re: [Ltru] Re: John Cowan throws in the towel on … Addison Phillips
- [Ltru] Re: RFC 1591 Frank Ellermann
- [Ltru] Re: Re: John Cowan throws in the towel on … Frank Ellermann
- Re: [Ltru] RFC 1591 (was: Re: draft-ietf-ltru-464… John Cowan
- [Ltru] Re: John Cowan throws in the towel on extl… Doug Ewell
- RE: [Ltru] RFC 1591 (was: Re: draft-ietf-ltru-464… Debbie Garside
- [Ltru] Re: John Cowan throws in the towel on extl… John Cowan
- Re: [Ltru] Re: John Cowan throws in the towel on … Karen_Broome
- Re: [Ltru] Re: John Cowan throws in the towel on … John Cowan
- RE: [Ltru] Re: John Cowan throws in the towel on … Peter Constable