[Ltru] RE: Numerical region subtags (RE: extlang)

"Don Osborn" <dzo@bisharat.net> Wed, 21 March 2007 11:53 UTC

Return-path: <ltru-bounces@ietf.org>
Received: from [] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HTzO9-00069r-Fd; Wed, 21 Mar 2007 07:53:57 -0400
Received: from [] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HTzO7-000665-E1 for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2007 07:53:55 -0400
Received: from 113166.kabissa.org ([] helo=kabissa.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HTzNu-00072B-G5 for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2007 07:53:55 -0400
Received: (qmail 17428 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2007 06:53:37 -0500
Received: from pool-71-252-39-214.washdc.east.verizon.net (HELO IBM92AA25595C4) ( by with SMTP; 21 Mar 2007 06:53:37 -0500
From: "Don Osborn" <dzo@bisharat.net>
To: "'Doug Ewell'" <dewell@adelphia.net>, "'LTRU Working Group'" <ltru@ietf.org>
References: <E1HTirr-0002Yp-1a@megatron.ietf.org> <010501c76b26$46ed8910$6401a8c0@DGBP7M81> <015501c76b30$c1cd7be0$456873a0$@net> <014701c76b7e$8b268fc0$6401a8c0@DGBP7M81>
In-Reply-To: <014701c76b7e$8b268fc0$6401a8c0@DGBP7M81>
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 07:53:33 -0400
Message-ID: <025501c76baf$8d7878c0$a8696a40$@net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0
Thread-Index: AcdrfotFl4mS3ZEzSvKvwc3HP3cg7gAKpkHA
Content-Language: en-us
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 4b800b1eab964a31702fa68f1ff0e955
Subject: [Ltru] RE: Numerical region subtags (RE: extlang)
X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
Precedence: list
List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list <ltru.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru>, <mailto:ltru-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/ltru>
List-Post: <mailto:ltru@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ltru-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru>, <mailto:ltru-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org

Doug, Addison, Thanks for the clarifications. I wasn't clear how outside codes are taken in by ietf-languages, but since the set of regional codes is already in the registry that's great. Don

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Doug Ewell [mailto:dewell@adelphia.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 2:03 AM
> To: LTRU Working Group
> Cc: Don Osborn
> Subject: Re: Numerical region subtags (RE: extlang)
> Don Osborn <dzo at bisharat dot net> wrote:
> > So the Africa numerical region subtags have not been defined/adopted
> > by IETF-languages, but the Latin America numerical tag "419" has?
> > (Hence es-419?) Not that I'm planning on it, but if there were a need
> > for a tag for say East African Swahili or for African French, one
> > would need to make the proposal to IETF-languages?
> Addison replied:
> > What Doug is saying is: the codes and what they mean are defined by
> > the UN, not by separate registration on the ietf-languages list.
> I think there are two sources of misunderstanding here; that's one of
> them.  The other stems from the presence of the tag "es-419" in the
> Registry.  It was registered in the late RFC 3066 era when we knew the
> numeric region subtags were going to be available shortly.  We had
> previously argued over a tag for "Latin American Spanish" and it became
> clear that we could register "es-419" almost for free -- it would meet
> the immediate need without adding another grandfathered tag (or variant
> subtag) to the mix.
> The ietf-languages group no longer registers whole tags, but rather
> subtags.  At the same time, all of the UN numeric code elements that
> represent macro-geographical areas -- all of them -- are available
> using
> the generative model.  So the presence of the redundant tag "es-419" in
> the Registry is a historical curiosity only; it is no more or less
> legitimate than "sw-014" or "fr-002", the two tags Don asked about.
> You
> can use those tags today if you like.
> My list of six numeric subtags dealing with Africa was copied from the
> Registry, not from the UN list.
> There are a few UN M.49 code elements that have not been carried over
> as
> region subtags, the ones that represent economic groupings.  An example
> is 199, "Least developed countries."  This group includes countries as
> diverse (geographically and linguistically) as Cape Verde, Bangladesh,
> and Vanuatu; such groupings would be pointless in language tags.  (By
> comparison, Don has shown clearly what others have disputed, that there
> is a demand for macro-geographical subtags and that they can have
> meaning.)
> --
> Doug Ewell  *  Fullerton, California, USA  *  RFC 4645  *  UTN #14
> http://users.adelphia.net/~dewell/
> http://www1.ietf.org/html.charters/ltru-charter.html
> http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages

Ltru mailing list